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Old 11-13-2011, 10:54 PM   #1
Jack
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Default The supposed demise of boxing at the hands of MMA...

...is working out really well, huh?

Boxing is continuing to get more and more recognition from the mainstream whilst UFC numbers are way down. Kimbo Slice on CBS did 6.5m viewers whereas the UFC on FOX did 4.6m. Still high numbers, yes, but the fact a freak show attracted many more fans than a huge UFC title fight, says something about the current state of the UFC. I say "the UFC" too because it now defines the sport of MMA, which after more failed organizations, is pretty much dead in the water as a sport. The only thing left is the UFC brand that is doing poor TV numbers, has only two stars left and has repeatedly sold less than 300k PPV buys this year.

Boxing has always had a huge lead around the world, so that isn't worth looking at. In Germany, Britain etc., MMA is a fringe sport. However, in America, boxing did fall behind and there was a significant gap between the two sports with boxing, sadly, falling behind. However, that gap has shrunk a lot and given the new boxing shows on CBS (I think) and HBO, there is only one way that boxing is moving. The UFC is going in the opposite direction.

I told people a while ago that boxing fans had no reason to worry. Dana White has shot himself in the foot by being too Vince McMahon-like. He hasn't killed MMA off yet, but he has greatly hurt it. Let the sport continue to implode whilst boxing continues to rise from it's premature grave.
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Old 11-13-2011, 10:57 PM   #2
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Default Re: The supposed demise of boxing at the hands of MMA...

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Originally Posted by Jack View Post
...is working out really well, huh?

Boxing is continuing to get more and more recognition from the mainstream whilst UFC numbers are way down. Kimbo Slice on CBS did 6.5m viewers whereas the UFC on FOX did 4.6m. Still high numbers, yes, but the fact a freak show attracted many more fans than a huge UFC title fight, says something about the current state of the UFC. I say "the UFC" too because it now defines the sport of MMA, which after more failed organizations, is pretty much dead in the water as a sport. The only thing left is the UFC brand that is doing poor TV numbers, has only two stars left and has repeatedly sold less than 300k PPV buys this year.

Boxing has always had a huge lead around the world, so that isn't worth looking at. In Germany, Britain etc., MMA is a fringe sport. However, in America, boxing did fall behind and there was a significant gap between the two sports with boxing, sadly, falling behind. However, that gap has shrunk a lot and given the new boxing shows on CBS (I think) and HBO, there is only one way that boxing is moving. The UFC is going in the opposite direction.

I told people a while ago that boxing fans had no reason to worry. Dana White has shot himself in the foot by being too Vince McMahon-like. He hasn't killed MMA off yet, but he has greatly hurt it. Let the sport continue to implode whilst boxing continues to rise from it's premature grave.
There's always going to be a market for boxing. Seeing people continuously strike each other along with the possibilities of knockouts is more eye pleasing to the average person than the grappling in MMA.
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Old 11-13-2011, 10:59 PM   #3
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Default Re: The supposed demise of boxing at the hands of MMA...

F**k mma
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Old 11-13-2011, 11:01 PM   #4
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Default Re: The supposed demise of boxing at the hands of MMA...

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There's always going to be a market for boxing. Seeing people continuously strike each other along with the possibilities of knockouts is more eye pleasing to the average person than the grappling in MMA.
Absolutely. I understand why MMA became popular but it was always going to be a fad. For proof of that, look at their fanbase.

The 18-35 year old, white males are always following trends in America. They are the same group who popularized grunge music, wrestling in the late 90's, extreme sports and MMA is no different to that. They will continuously do the same thing. See a new fad, get behind it enormously and then when it loses it's cool factor because too many people enjoy it, they drift away. As soon as a trend becomes too popular and too mainstream, these people run away and that's exactly what has happened with MMA.

It will still have a market, no doubt, just like all those other things I've mentioned. However, the huge numbers that they go during their best years, with Chuck Liddell, Tito Ortiz and Randy Couture, are a thing of the past. Those days, and those fans, are gone.

Boxing is a sport that is integrated into our societies. It is a sport like football in England, the NFL, NBA, cricket, baseball, tennis or whatever else. MMA is nothing like boxing in that sense.
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Old 11-13-2011, 11:25 PM   #5
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Default Re: The supposed demise of boxing at the hands of MMA...

Very interesting thread.

I'd like to hear why you think Dana White has hurt the sport so greatly, though.
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Old 11-13-2011, 11:38 PM   #6
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Default Re: The supposed demise of boxing at the hands of MMA...

That decision on Saturday night to award Pac the winner almost made me want to stop following the sport of boxing.............. but than i thought, what are the other alternatives???

Seeing a sloppy looking HW champ in UFC get mauled in 50sec brought me to my senses and i'm back on the boxing train
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Old 11-13-2011, 11:53 PM   #7
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Default Re: The supposed demise of boxing at the hands of MMA...

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Originally Posted by CarlesX7 View Post
Very interesting thread.

I'd like to hear why you think Dana White has hurt the sport so greatly, though.
Well, competition is what keeps sports like MMA thriving. I feel like the closest business model to MMA is pro-wrestling, so lets use that as an example:

If you were to draw up periods when wrestling was at it's peak, you'd come up with something similar to this:

1950-70's America
1970-1990's Japan
1985-1992 America
1997-2001 America
1990-current Mexico

The exception to all this, is Britain in the 70's-90's. That was dominated by one group but the sport was helped by different promotions running local shows.

Anyway, what these dates show is a common pattern. The business has always, and will always, thrive when there is competition. Whether that was the old wrestling territory days, the rivalry between the different Japanese companies in the mid 90's or the huge war between WCW and the WWF, it doesn't matter. The fact is, these rivalries will always attract interest from non-fans and when the competition dies out, it clearly affects ratings. As soon as one Japanese company does bad numbers, the others do too. When WCW died, the WWF/E started to lose ratings dramatically, which is why we've seen Vince McMahon try to create his own rivalry by having separate brands. He and everyone else in the industry knows that rivalry helps everyone involved.

If you want an example with MMA, look at when it was most successful. You'll see the UFC's success but then you'll also see PRIDE doing well or some other company. These companies bounce off each other with creativity, the TV companies want to win ratings and promote their product more effectively, fans become more loyal to one company or another. When there is no competition, nobody cares about any of those things and the product suffers.

I know pro-wrestling isn't a sport but looking at it from a business perspective, it's the most appropriate comparison, and the fact is, you look at the history of pro-wrestling or you look at modern MMA, and you'll see one clear thing: When there is competition, everyone thrives.

That last line will probably make you think "well, why run other companies out of business?" and it's a fair question. However, McMahon did it with the territories and regretted it. He did it with WCW and regrets it. He did it with ECW and regrets it. So will Dana White regret putting other companies out of business. Having said that, if TNA or any MMA company got big, McMahon and White would crush their rivals as soon as they could. Even though these people are smart, they're ruled by their greed and don't want to share the limelight. They're also egotistical and probably enjoy being the top dog.
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Old 11-13-2011, 11:54 PM   #8
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Default Re: The supposed demise of boxing at the hands of MMA...

Quote:
Originally Posted by the beaver View Post
That decision on Saturday night to award Pac the winner almost made me want to stop following the sport of boxing.............. but than i thought, what are the other alternatives???

Seeing a sloppy looking HW champ in UFC get mauled in 50sec brought me to my senses and i'm back on the boxing train
Did you hear White's reaction to that? Pure ego. You can't have an hour long show end in a 50 second fight and expect people to be happy. It's bullshit.
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Old 11-14-2011, 12:51 AM   #9
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Default Re: The supposed demise of boxing at the hands of MMA...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack View Post
Absolutely. I understand why MMA became popular but it was always going to be a fad. For proof of that, look at their fanbase.

The 18-35 year old, white males are always following trends in America. They are the same group who popularized grunge music, wrestling in the late 90's, extreme sports and MMA is no different to that. They will continuously do the same thing. See a new fad, get behind it enormously and then when it loses it's cool factor because too many people enjoy it, they drift away. As soon as a trend becomes too popular and too mainstream, these people run away and that's exactly what has happened with MMA.

It will still have a market, no doubt, just like all those other things I've mentioned. However, the huge numbers that they go during their best years, with Chuck Liddell, Tito Ortiz and Randy Couture, are a thing of the past. Those days, and those fans, are gone.

Boxing is a sport that is integrated into our societies. It is a sport like football in England, the NFL, NBA, cricket, baseball, tennis or whatever else. MMA is nothing like boxing in that sense.
I agree with all of the above, which is why I support M1 and all those promotions who wanted to have WAMMA as some sort of global governing body, where promotions from around the globe and match its top fighters to amother promotion. This is what made the old Pride MMA the best, it had kickboxers from the Netherlands, Samboist from Russia, Judo from Japan, wrestler from America, and BJJ from Brazil fighting against each other.
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Old 11-14-2011, 01:20 AM   #10
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Default Re: The supposed demise of boxing at the hands of MMA...

MMA is still feather fist fighters with amateur punches who hug each other and roll around like fags. The MMA HW champ would be KO'd by a tomato can boxer in round 1.
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Old 11-14-2011, 01:37 AM   #11
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Default Re: The supposed demise of boxing at the hands of MMA...

Wow. Such insight! Hey MMA regulars - Its ok, we can close the thread, apprently kingofthe1round has found out MMA is for poofters who can't punch - It's all over.

Forget all that stuff about having a sport thats growing, has a decent accountable organisation behind it and a title struture that casual fans can understand.

It's all just a few guys with no punching power and aspirations to huff each others dongs.
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Old 11-14-2011, 02:05 AM   #12
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Default Re: The supposed demise of boxing at the hands of MMA...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack View Post
Well, competition is what keeps sports like MMA thriving. I feel like the closest business model to MMA is pro-wrestling, so lets use that as an example:

If you were to draw up periods when wrestling was at it's peak, you'd come up with something similar to this:

1950-70's America
1970-1990's Japan
1985-1992 America
1997-2001 America
1990-current Mexico

The exception to all this, is Britain in the 70's-90's. That was dominated by one group but the sport was helped by different promotions running local shows.

Anyway, what these dates show is a common pattern. The business has always, and will always, thrive when there is competition. Whether that was the old wrestling territory days, the rivalry between the different Japanese companies in the mid 90's or the huge war between WCW and the WWF, it doesn't matter. The fact is, these rivalries will always attract interest from non-fans and when the competition dies out, it clearly affects ratings. As soon as one Japanese company does bad numbers, the others do too. When WCW died, the WWF/E started to lose ratings dramatically, which is why we've seen Vince McMahon try to create his own rivalry by having separate brands. He and everyone else in the industry knows that rivalry helps everyone involved.

If you want an example with MMA, look at when it was most successful. You'll see the UFC's success but then you'll also see PRIDE doing well or some other company. These companies bounce off each other with creativity, the TV companies want to win ratings and promote their product more effectively, fans become more loyal to one company or another. When there is no competition, nobody cares about any of those things and the product suffers.

I know pro-wrestling isn't a sport but looking at it from a business perspective, it's the most appropriate comparison, and the fact is, you look at the history of pro-wrestling or you look at modern MMA, and you'll see one clear thing: When there is competition, everyone thrives.

That last line will probably make you think "well, why run other companies out of business?" and it's a fair question. However, McMahon did it with the territories and regretted it. He did it with WCW and regrets it. He did it with ECW and regrets it. So will Dana White regret putting other companies out of business. Having said that, if TNA or any MMA company got big, McMahon and White would crush their rivals as soon as they could. Even though these people are smart, they're ruled by their greed and don't want to share the limelight. They're also egotistical and probably enjoy being the top dog.
Being in America we also tend to be very insulated in terms of our perception of things. Bellicose attitudes, the ambiance of a UFC fight can be very repulsive. You bring up the WWE model, the other thing that is strikingly similar between MMA and the WWE is the type of drama and hype associated with the fights. It isn't designed to appeal to an international audience, but an American one. I'm an American Military vet, but I've been a fan of MMA pre pride, since I was around 15 years old. I vomit a little every time I hear a crowd chanting, "USA, USA." When I look back at the way Pride was put together, I cant help but compare it to the UFC and see all of the things that it could, and should be, but isn't.

Being a combat fan/ strategy/ fight fan. I enjoy everything from chess to Muay Thai. I couldn't aggree with you more.
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Old 11-14-2011, 04:15 AM   #13
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Default Re: The supposed demise of boxing at the hands of MMA...

Not this bullshit again. Do you like basketball or baseball? YOU CANNOT LIKE BOTH SURELY, THAT WOULD BE RIDICULOUS!
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Old 11-14-2011, 04:20 AM   #14
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Default Re: The supposed demise of boxing at the hands of MMA...

Can we stop this?

Please?

Why are people so adamant about putting Boxing vs. MMA? There's just some ****ed up thing where someone grows up with boxing and then MMA comes along and they're threatened by it or don't understand so instead of researching it or seeing it from a fans point of view or simply admitting its not for you, people rail against it and just start yelling the same boring idiotic stuff over and over again.

Boxing fans are just as bad as MMA fans. For every idiot with a Tapout shirt and a tribal tattoo, there's one idiot boxing fan behind them shouting ITS FOR FAGS. Embarassing as ****. Be a fan, support what you like sure, but stop railing against what you don't get or make it a competition. They're not at war, they're different sports, stop being so threatened.

Jack, I used to think you were a decent poster, but another thread that shows you're ****ing shit and you should stop with your opinionated tripe. **** off back to the General.
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Old 11-14-2011, 04:41 AM   #15
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Default Re: The supposed demise of boxing at the hands of MMA...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Koa View Post
Being in America we also tend to be very insulated in terms of our perception of things. Bellicose attitudes, the ambiance of a UFC fight can be very repulsive.
It doesn't seem to be stopping the fans in Canada, Brazil, England and Australia from getting excited about the sport.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Koa View Post
You bring up the WWE model, the other thing that is strikingly similar between MMA and the WWE is the type of drama and hype associated with the fights.
You bemoan this, but I find you somewhat hypocritical. You express admiration for "the way Pride was put together", but that was basically Japanese Pro Wrestling v2.0. Marketing Rampage as a homeless street person? That's not WWE type shit?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Koa View Post
It isn't designed to appeal to an international audience, but an American one. I'm an American Military vet, but I've been a fan of MMA pre pride, since I was around 15 years old. I vomit a little every time I hear a crowd chanting, "USA, USA."
Dude, Americans yell "USA, USA" at every public event. Why are you so put off by crowds of Americans getting boisterous at an American sporting event?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Koa View Post
When I look back at the way Pride was put together, I cant help but compare it to the UFC and see all of the things that it could, and should be, but isn't.
Pride was a circus sideshow. UFC is the main company working in a legitimate sport.

Which of the following PRIDE elements would you like to see introduced into the UFC?

* Barely-concealed racism in the ring (Japanese fighters being favoured by both judges and referees)

* Barely-concealed racism outside of the ring

* Rampant steroid abuse

* Lack of medical care for fighters

* Marketable champions engaging in repeated "non-title" fights in case they lost their belt to a nobody

* Fixed fights

* Freak show matchups featuring 250 pound weigh differences etc.

* Involvement with organized crime syndicates

* Lack of sanctioning as a legitimate athletic competition

And so on.

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