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Old 11-18-2011, 07:19 AM   #46
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Default Re: My Pac-Marquez III Scorecard & A Few Comments

This guy needs to get over it, your hero lost, now go hang urself in the library for all to see.
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Old 11-18-2011, 07:32 AM   #47
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Default Re: My Pac-Marquez III Scorecard & A Few Comments

Quote:
Originally Posted by Popkins View Post

ONE: Pacquiao 10-9 Marquez / Pac lands better punches, couple of good straight shots / CLOSE

TWO: Pacquiao 9-10 Marquez / CLOSE

THREE: Pacquiao 10-9 Marquez / Pac lands better shots down the stretch / CLOSE

FOUR: 10-10 / Pac is edging round until JMM lands good shots near end

FIVE: Pacquiao 9-10 Marquez / CLEAR (clearest round of the fight)

SIX: Pacquiao 10-9 Marquez / Pac outworks him / CLOSE


SEVEN: Pacquiao 9-10 Marquez / Pac lands a couple of quality shots near end, but overall a Marquez round / CLEAR

EIGHT: Pacquiao 9-10 Marquez / Edged by JMM landing the cleaner shots / CLOSE

NINE: Pacquiao 10-9 Marquez / Very tricky to score. JMM lands good combos, Pac outworks him, lands good shots near end / CLOSE

TEN: 10-10 / Very difficult to score

ELEVEN: 10-10 / JMM lands 2 best shots of the round, but Pac does more work. Round could be scored any way and it wouldn't be wrong / CLOSE

TWELVE: Pacquiao 10-9 Marquez / Another killer to score, but Pac is the only one who lands a decisive, significant punch to punctuate the fight / CLOSE
But on the night of the fight you had Marquez 4-2 up after 6 rounds, ok maybe not quite but that was your perception

Quote:
Originally Posted by Popkins View Post
[b]9 - I did not score the fight as I was too nervous to do so, obviously did not expect it to be so close. My impression was that Marquez was 4-2 up after 6, but that Manny outworked him in enough of the second half of the fight to make it very very close indeed.
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Old 11-18-2011, 08:27 AM   #48
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Default Re: My Pac-Marquez III Scorecard & A Few Comments

This thread promised an epic Popkins/Divac battle, and the start of a great ESB rivalry. It's been a massive letdown. Both posters are content to duck each other to reply to other posters who won't give them a hard time. This is what's wrong with ESB today.
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Old 11-18-2011, 08:30 AM   #49
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Default Re: My Pac-Marquez III Scorecard & A Few Comments

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This thread promised an epic Popkins/Divac battle, and the start of a great ESB rivalry. It's been a massive letdown. Both posters are content to duck each other to reply to other posters who won't give them a hard time. This is what's wrong with ESB today.
Shut the **** up your hero got his ass spanked.
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Old 11-18-2011, 08:31 AM   #50
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Default Re: My Pac-Marquez III Scorecard & A Few Comments

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But on the night of the fight you had Marquez 4-2 up after 6 rounds, ok maybe not quite but that was your perception
So? What exactly does this prove? You took the trouble of going hunting into my posting history to find a quote where I said I didn't score the right but my impression was that Marquez was leading, to then compare it to when I did actually score and analyse the fight? I don't see the point of this at all. Seems like a pretty failed attempt at castigation to me. Very often my initial impressions of a fight are at odds with an actual concentrated analysis. I think this is the same for everyone.
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Old 11-18-2011, 08:33 AM   #51
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Default Re: My Pac-Marquez III Scorecard & A Few Comments

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Originally Posted by Fighting Pride View Post
This thread promised an epic Popkins/Divac battle, and the start of a great ESB rivalry. It's been a massive letdown. Both posters are content to duck each other to reply to other posters who won't give them a hard time. This is what's wrong with ESB today.
No, you are. People who get more joy out of two posters chucking pointless insults at each other than of people talking boxing is what is ****ing killing this forum.
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Old 11-18-2011, 08:34 AM   #52
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Default Re: My Pac-Marquez III Scorecard & A Few Comments

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Originally Posted by whoupicking? View Post
Shut the **** up your hero got his ass spanked.
That's not what the after-fight pictures show.
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Old 11-18-2011, 08:45 AM   #53
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Default Re: My Pac-Marquez III Scorecard & A Few Comments

Quote:
Originally Posted by Popkins View Post
I'll start with two comments before I get down to trying to score these rounds accurately:


1 - Seriously, how can any real boxing fan say this wasn't a close fight???

2 - This fight really does underline how insanely difficult to score boxing is compared to other sports. There were a few rounds in there which mean I really cannot have a strong conviction over the verdict. In a three-minute round where both guys throw and land a similar amount of punches, sometimes it really does feel arbitrary just picking out one factor/moment in order to call the round. I don't understand how anyone can be so decisive over some fights when there are rounds like these.
I agree. I'm inclined to say that it was too close to call. The subjectivity of scoring the fights will always lend to controversy. The scoring system also lends itself to controversy. Even the slightest edge will give a score of 10-9, which is the same score when a fighter dominates another without a knockdown or a severe beating.

Thus I feel that people should appreciate, or at least listen to, other people's scores and view of the fight.
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Old 11-18-2011, 09:30 AM   #54
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Default Re: My Pac-Marquez III Scorecard & A Few Comments

Quote:
Originally Posted by Popkins View Post
So? What exactly does this prove? You took the trouble of going hunting into my posting history to find a quote where I said I didn't score the right but my impression was that Marquez was leading, to then compare it to when I did actually score and analyse the fight? I don't see the point of this at all. Seems like a pretty failed attempt at castigation to me. Very often my initial impressions of a fight are at odds with an actual concentrated analysis. I think this is the same for everyone.
It doesn't prove anything, but there is a 3 point swing from 6 rounds off your initial impression, it does look like your trying your hardest to give Pacman rounds
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Old 11-18-2011, 09:40 AM   #55
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Default Re: My Pac-Marquez III Scorecard & A Few Comments

I have the same scorecard as the TS. Its a draw and very ****ing close. Anyone saying that this was a robbery are Mexicans fans who are bitter of Pacquiao and people who dont know shit about boxing.
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Old 11-18-2011, 09:47 AM   #56
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Default Re: My Pac-Marquez III Scorecard & A Few Comments

Quote:
Originally Posted by Popkins View Post
I'll start with two comments before I get down to trying to score these rounds accurately:


1 - Seriously, how can any real boxing fan say this wasn't a close fight???

2 - This fight really does underline how insanely difficult to score boxing is compared to other sports. There were a few rounds in there which mean I really cannot have a strong conviction over the verdict. In a three-minute round where both guys throw and land a similar amount of punches, sometimes it really does feel arbitrary just picking out one factor/moment in order to call the round. I don't understand how anyone can be so decisive over some fights when there are rounds like these.


Anyway, here goes, a tentative scorecard because some rounds were extremely, extremely close and highly open to interpretation (until the scoring system or the form of a boxing match changes, this will continue to happen):

ONE: Pacquiao 10-9 Marquez / Pac lands better punches, couple of good straight shots / CLOSE

TWO: Pacquiao 9-10 Marquez / CLOSE

THREE: Pacquiao 10-9 Marquez / Pac lands better shots down the stretch / CLOSE

FOUR: 10-10 / Pac is edging round until JMM lands good shots near end

FIVE: Pacquiao 9-10 Marquez / CLEAR (clearest round of the fight)

SIX: Pacquiao 10-9 Marquez / Pac outworks him / CLOSE

SEVEN: Pacquiao 9-10 Marquez / Pac lands a couple of quality shots near end, but overall a Marquez round / CLEAR

EIGHT: Pacquiao 9-10 Marquez / Edged by JMM landing the cleaner shots / CLOSE

NINE: Pacquiao 10-9 Marquez / Very tricky to score. JMM lands good combos, Pac outworks him, lands good shots near end / CLOSE

TEN: 10-10 / Very difficult to score

ELEVEN: 10-10 / JMM lands 2 best shots of the round, but Pac does more work. Round could be scored any way and it wouldn't be wrong / CLOSE

TWELVE: Pacquiao 10-9 Marquez / Another killer to score, but Pac is the only one who lands a decisive, significant punch to punctuate the fight / CLOSE


Number of close rounds: TEN out of TWELVE

Number of clear rounds: TWO out of TWELVE (5 ,7 - both to Marquez)


Final score: Pacquiao 115-115 Marquez



Some Further Comments


- The fact that Marquez won the two clearest rounds of the fight (5, 7) is one of the several key reasons why many were shouting "robbery" in the immediate aftermath

- One thing I noticed was that Marquez's punches were more eye-catching because when Pac landed he landed straight punches which were thrown from quite far back and so didn't land with full power, whereas Marquez landed shots he turned his body into and therefore looked more effective, but it was Pacquiao who landed more in more rounds I think

- The last 3 rounds could probably all have been scored either way, which is why I think people with extremely strong convictions over who won is silly. I've seen people saying Marquez was robbed and I've seen people saying Marquez cannot have won the fight - both are very wrong IMO




Final Note


My card for the 1st fight was 115-112 Pacquiao

My card for the 2nd fight was 114-114

My card for the 3rd fight was 115-115

Therefore, after 36 rounds I have a majority draw, of sorts.

Do I want to see a fourth fight?

Hell Yes is the answer!


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youre a monkey. round one for Pacquiao? he landed the cleaner shots? youre stupid as shit. the highlight of that round was a four punch combination by marquez. pacquiao didnt land anything meaningful. change your name to "monks".
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Old 11-18-2011, 10:00 AM   #57
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Default Re: My Pac-Marquez III Scorecard & A Few Comments

I've been waiting to hear your take and was actually going to pm to see your views.

I too scored it a draw, 6 rounds a piece.

I pretty much agree with everything you say and would like clarification on two points (may have been covered in the thread; I haven't read every post.)

1) rather arbitary, but if you had to split those even rounds, who would you give the edge?

2) in light, how does your top 5 p4p look and then your top 5 ww look?
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Old 11-18-2011, 10:05 AM   #58
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Default Re: My Pac-Marquez III Scorecard & A Few Comments

I gave Pacman only 11 rounds out of 36
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Old 11-18-2011, 10:17 AM   #59
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Default Re: My Pac-Marquez III Scorecard & A Few Comments

PAC won can't believe its been almost a week and JMM fans are still crying...grow up boys accept defeat, it's not the end of the world. It was a close fight blame your man for not making himself more convincing in 3 fights.
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Old 11-18-2011, 10:19 AM   #60
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Default Re: My Pac-Marquez III Scorecard & A Few Comments

Quote:
Originally Posted by Indio-Bandido View Post
youre a monkey. round one for Pacquiao? he landed the cleaner shots? youre stupid as shit. the highlight of that round was a four punch combination by marquez. pacquiao didnt land anything meaningful. change your name to "monks".
if you want to review/dispute it, feel free:

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6UBFaTh6ls&feature=player_embedded[/ame]

Originally Posted by dangerousity [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
Round 1:
Pac:

2:38 jab (clear)
2:07 jab (clear)
1.48 power (lead left, clear)
1:37 power (right counter, clear)
1:37 jab (not clear)
1.37 power (2 jabs may have landed previous to that), clear
1.11 jab (clear)
1:11 power (not clear)
0:56 jab (blocked/missed)
0.29 power (clear)
0:27 jab (clear)
0.08 1-2 ( I think only the jab landed) (jmm reaction was throw combos after he was hit by 1-2) clear
0.05 jab (JMM throws combinations which Pac slips) clear

JMM:
2:04 jab blocked/missed
1:54 jab (clear)
1.34 jab (somehwat clear, pac was moving away and somewhat clear)
(1:27) jab blocked
1.24 left hook to body (looks blocked or slipped) If someone has HD
version, slow mo and pause to see for yourself.
(blocked by the right elbow)
0.28 jab (maybe blocked) blocked
1.10 bodyshot x2 (clear)
1.11 jab (1:12 jab clear)
0.01 bodyshots x2 (1 looks low) (low blow and one to the arm/elbow)


Difficulty in scoring some shots landed on Pac is that Pac blocks to defend, hard to tell if a punch gets through sometimes. Most of the time I give JMM the benefit of doubt. JMM pulls away from the punch so easier to tell. IMO a clear Pac round. The punches he landed was clear and his straight left even caused the red mark on Marquez nose as Lampley pointed out. JMM didnt land a clear power punch to Pac's head, just 5 bodyshots, 1 which looked low and 1 looked blocked.

10-9 Pac.

round 1 could almost be 10-8, i scored it on pac's favor 10-9. pls review round 1.
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