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Old 03-27-2008, 12:02 AM   #1516
goldenboy
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Default Re: Irish Boxing

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Originally Posted by Shamrock
Thanks for that, I have some great kids and an outstanding girl boxer among them. Obviously Mick asked my opinion because I coach, but lets remember we are talking world stage here with Lee, and while I have an opinion like everyone else, It is only small town ramblings.

I just love this irish thread tho, eveyone respects each other.
yeah i love it too mate!! we should set up our own forum!
esb has so many ****heads but everyone is cool in here!!

i hope to hear some more ****ysis from u mate. u certainly know what your talking about! respect.
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Old 03-27-2008, 12:12 AM   #1517
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Default Re: Irish Boxing

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Originally Posted by ardy
You will be eating your words, once Lee takes the title from Pavlik.
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Old 03-27-2008, 12:14 AM   #1518
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Ardy, I vaguely remember watching the O'Grady-Watt fight on Halloween night in 1980. Actually, it was November 1, 1980 - the night after Halloween. Anyway, from my recollection O'Grady and his family had some death threats before the fight. Some extremist Protestant group I believe they said was responsible. I remember Sean really getting the better of Watt before the intentional headbutt turned the tide. It was a terrible cut. In the spring of 1981, Watt got his clock cleaned by the great Alexis Arguello which pleased me greatly. My only regret was that Arguello seemed to carry Watt and probably could have kayoed him if he stepped more on the gas pedal so to speak. I went to see the ****ey-Holmes fight on closed circuit television at the casino in Atlantic City. I had recently turned thirteen years old and my grandfather took me. I remember ****ey was called 'the great white hope' and I was wearing a kelly green '****ey Country' T-shirt and white adidas hightop sneakers with green stripes. Two black guys were teasing me and laughing at me after the fight cause' I had a temper tantrum when Coooney lost and was throwing a fit and crying. It was just good natured ribbing though. They were grown men and I, as I explained, was thirteen at the time. I had met ****ey twice, and his mother, one of brothers and one of his sisters so there was an emotional attachment I had which exceeded just being a fan. In 1995, I spoke a couple times by phone with the late James Quarry - older brother of the late Jerry Quarry. I had been sending donations to the Jerry Quarry foundation to prevent pugilistica dementia. James passed away from lung cancer in Oregon in 2002. Jerry pre-deceased him in the first days of 1999. My father was a huge Quarry fan in the 1960's to mid-70's.
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Old 03-27-2008, 12:16 AM   #1519
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Default Re: Irish Boxing

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we will have the last laugh franner!!
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Old 03-27-2008, 09:28 AM   #1520
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Default Re: Irish Boxing

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Originally Posted by goldenboy
yeah i love it too mate!! we should set up our own forum!
esb has so many ****heads but everyone is cool in here!!

i hope to hear some more ****ysis from u mate. u certainly know what your talking about! respect.
Setting up a forum is easy to do. Getting members to keep it going is harder. Much harder. Look at your number of regular posters here. If you got your own sub forum here, like British Boxing, you would have fewer strays but enjoy the potential that a thriving, existing site brings. You might ask the mods for it.
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Old 03-27-2008, 11:01 AM   #1521
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Default Re: Irish Boxing

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Originally Posted by Hermit
Setting up a forum is easy to do. Getting members to keep it going is harder. Much harder. Look at your number of regular posters here. If you got your own sub forum here, like British Boxing, you would have fewer strays but enjoy the potential that a thriving, existing site brings. You might ask the mods for it.
It would be nice to have our own forum, but going by this thread, there wouldn't be enough posters on it to sustain it.Britain has a far larger population,and have many more boxers and champions than us.In actual fact British boxing is "riding on the quest of a wave" at this moment in time, between their amateur and professional boxing sucess, there is great things to come in the next ten years in that country. But that's another story, and another thread or forum, I suppose.
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Old 03-27-2008, 11:11 AM   #1522
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Default Re: Irish Boxing

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Originally Posted by Shamrock
Thanks for that, I have some great kids and an outstanding girl boxer among them. Obviously Mick asked my opinion because I coach, but lets remember we are talking world stage here with Lee, and while I have an opinion like everyone else, It is only small town ramblings.

I just love this irish thread tho, eveyone respects each other.
hi shamrock,i wouldnt dicard your own talents as a coach so easily,did you not train the no.1 light heavyweight in the world in the ams.?
i always seem to forget you're a coach aswell shamrock,i just suspect some wee kiwi paddy sitting behind his computer thinking of "uch,wouldnt it be good to be back home"

its a bit harsh of jack doyle to come out and slander fra for chasing the next great irish hope,i think everyone is doing it,we have so many prospects at the minute that we are just waiting for that one wee golden egg to come out and take it to the old glory days,imo i cant wait to the next irish world champ and furthermore will support those who dont make it to that level wholeheartedly.
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Old 03-27-2008, 11:14 AM   #1523
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Default Re: Irish Boxing

Quote:
Originally Posted by ardy
It would be nice to have our own forum, but going by this thread, there wouldn't be enough posters on it to sustain it.Britain has a far larger population,and have many more boxers and champions than us.In actual fact British boxing is "riding on the quest of a wave" at this moment in time, between their amateur and professional boxing sucess, there is great things to come in the next ten years in that country. But that's another story, and another thread or forum, I suppose.
dont remind us ardy,please dont remind us

nah fair play to the brits,they have a great set up in place and they are reaping the rewards of it right now,lets just jhope we can say the same in 5 years!
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Old 03-27-2008, 11:41 AM   #1524
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Default Re: Irish Boxing

Quote:
Originally Posted by greengloves
hi shamrock,i wouldnt dicard your own talents as a coach so easily,did you not train the no.1 light heavyweight in the world in the ams.?
i always seem to forget you're a coach aswell shamrock,i just suspect some wee kiwi paddy sitting behind his computer thinking of "uch,wouldnt it be good to be back home"

its a bit harsh of jack doyle to come out and slander fra for chasing the next great irish hope,i think everyone is doing it,we have so many prospects at the minute that we are just waiting for that one wee golden egg to come out and take it to the old glory days,imo i cant wait to the next irish world champ and furthermore will support those who dont make it to that level wholeheartedly.
You had better watchout, incase he comes back on,and calls you a d#ck for saying that. Although to be fair to Jack, I read his other posts, and he is from Limerick, he might have been simply lashing back at some at the hurtful comments aimed at Andy on this forum. But most if not all the comments on this thread have been constructive and supportive of young Andy, so he was a bit of the mark attacking us
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Old 03-27-2008, 12:02 PM   #1525
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Default Re: Irish Boxing

Quote:
Originally Posted by ardy
I'm assuming Fra is a young guy[going by his posts], and with youth comes enthusiasm. Jack, this is an Irish boxing thread, which main purpose is to talk and exchange information about Irish prospects. If Fra or anyone else for that matter who contribute to this thread, didn't show that optimism, I would be surprised.Jack, as I said, I was playing devils advocate with my "critical" post on Lee, but I truely hope he can put last Friday's performance behind him,and move forward.What do you think yourself.
Well, although everyone is saying this now, I had my worries about Lee as well. I was at his fight v Falliga live in Limerick and he simply couldn't handle him in close. Also, Falliga kept coming out of teh corner with vicious hooks and everytime there was an exchange in close Falliga got the better of him. Andy didn't seem to know how to finish him off. I said to my father that when Lee is beaten it will be by someone who can fight well on the inside and get in his face, Vera did just that. I personally think a Duddy-Lee fight would be a lot closer that some people think.

Obviously, I am hoping with all my heart that Andy can bounce back, but it's sickeneing to see this kind of talk straight away, and suddenly people are on to Macklin.
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Old 03-27-2008, 12:22 PM   #1526
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Default Re: Irish Boxing

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Originally Posted by Jackdoyle90
Well, although everyone is saying this now, I had my worries about Lee as well. I was at his fight v Falliga live in Limerick and he simply couldn't handle him in close. Also, Falliga kept coming out of teh corner with vicious hooks and everytime there was an exchange in close Falliga got the better of him. Andy didn't seem to know how to finish him off. I said to my father that when Lee is beaten it will be by someone who can fight well on the inside and get in his face, Vera did just that. I personally think a Duddy-Lee fight would be a lot closer that some people think.

Obviously, I am hoping with all my heart that Andy can bounce back, but it's sickeneing to see this kind of talk straight away, and suddenly people are on to Macklin.
I understand they way you feel Jack. When I was in my teens[I'm not saying your in your teens] McGuigan was at his peak.I thought McGuigan was the best thing, since sliced bread.But when Cruz defeated him, you got all the normal ****e-talkers writing letters into Boxing News, Ring and KO magazine telling anyone who wanted to listen, that they had always said Barry was rubbish blah,blah,blah. It was irratating, so just ignore it. The main thing is Lee can learn, because wether the fight was stopped early or not, Andy must improve dramatically on Friday's showing, if he is to mix with the elite of the division.
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Old 03-27-2008, 01:22 PM   #1527
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Default Re: Irish Boxing

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shamrock
Thanks Mick for giving me any value at all. I have several boxers that are better suited to fight at distance, once a week I get them to fight each other at close quarters or inside to teach them to shorten their punches. While on the outside, I insist they fight off the back foot and step in for the jab and to the side for hooks and body shots while keeping the scoring area at furthest possible range. But I make them fight 2 rounds out of 6 on the inside to know to shorten punches and fight off their laterals moving head from shoulder to shoulder. Obviously some range fighters are simply taught to tie-up. I prefer a fighter to learn all round drills while focusing on what they're best at. We need a complete fighter. I have seen Andy in two fights now and have considered him vulnerable from the outset.

As per his tiring during the Vera fight, I would put that down to the punishment he received slowing him down. The tad early stoppage didn't rate too high when sparing a fighter head damage.

cheers, and thanks for asking my opinion
As others have said shamrock, you seem to know yer stuff. And thats no put-down.
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Old 03-27-2008, 01:30 PM   #1528
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Default Re: Irish Boxing

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Originally Posted by ardy
Andy must improve dramatically on Friday's showing, if he is to mix with the elite of the division.
"Over here" some people see it as a badge of honor rooting for your home team even though some of the 'rough times' go on for decades. Anyone can root for the winner. Being realistic about their abilities is the difference though. The Irish have as much right to be proud of their lads for stepping into the ring as anyone else. Winning only makes it better.
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Old 03-27-2008, 01:39 PM   #1529
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Default Re: Irish Boxing

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As others have said shamrock, you seem to know yer stuff. And thats no put-down.
Yeah. We hope you have insight we lack. Kelly Pavlik's sparring partner was on the undercard of his first fight with Taylor. He said he could tell from the back of the arena, where he went to be with his girl friend after his fight, that he could see Taylor was done coming out in the 6th round. This was later confirmed, I think by Taylor. I have watched that fight again and I don't see it. Your training is going to pickup things we don't, just like Kelly's sparring partner. You are GURU here, like it or not.
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Old 03-27-2008, 01:47 PM   #1530
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Default Re: Irish Boxing

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Originally Posted by Hermit
Since there was a trainer around, I thought I'd ask an opinion. I thought I saw "Taylor" of Taylor/Pavlik 1 as the fight went on in Lee. Stamina was an issue there as well. That is when I started wondering. I can make a lot of other guesses and assertions from posts I've read on the forum, but I'll stick to what I saw with my own eyes. Two fighters, similar faults, same trainer. (Let me add, at the time I couldn't tell you WHY I thought I was seeing Taylor, but I did)

Fighters and trainers BOTH need to adapt to each other. Has Steward let that title "legenadary" that always proceeds his name affect his judgement? Is he trying to mold Andy with a mold that worked for some one else instead of adapting to his needs?

That's my concern anyhow. Founded or not.
STAMINA TRAINING!!!!!! it is as simple as that! i saw the fight several times over... lee was tired half-way through the fourth, before he got hurt and while he was dominating! he even had to back up and breath with his mouth wide open. steward is to blame! they trained for a quick KO, but found vera's chin to be quite tough.
watch the fight again on espn360.com; you will see lee was killing him...the ONLY factor was fatigue!!!....NO EXCUSE FOR THAT!!!!!!!!

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