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Old 12-23-2007, 02:24 AM   #31
puga_ni_nana
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Default Re: Pacquiao is still one dimensional..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Black
A prime Junior Jones would have broke pacman down slowly with his jabs before injecting him with poisonous right hands to punish him. Pacman would have gotten dissected and knocked out viciousl, and he would have never been the same fighter..
luisito espinosa will ktfo junior jones.
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Old 12-23-2007, 02:26 AM   #32
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Default Re: Pacquiao is still one dimensional..

But it's a mighty fine one-dimension at that. BTW, how many body punches can he add, like 4?
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Old 12-23-2007, 02:29 AM   #33
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Default Re: Pacquiao is still one dimensional..

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Originally Posted by puga_ni_nana
luisito espinosa will ktfo junior jones.
With his loopin punches.
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Old 12-23-2007, 02:38 AM   #34
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Default Re: Pacquiao is still one dimensional..

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Originally Posted by Black
He's one dimensional but a skilled brawler.
Is that you black?
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Old 12-23-2007, 02:44 AM   #35
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Default Re: Pacquiao is still one dimensional..

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Originally Posted by Thinman
I agree up to certaint point....I disagree when you say "He can outbox many good boxers". When did he do that? When did he outbox MAB? Was it in the the first fight or the second time?

Pac will never outbox JMM, it won't happen....and you know it
MAB tried boxing when he was getting his ass kicked in their first matchup, and Pac was able to box with him, even getting the better of some of the boxing related exchanges.

The rematch was a more controlled Pac because he was sensing that MAB knew what he was up too.
MAB wanted for Pac to get reckless, so that he could have Pac coming forward and he stricly countering, but Pac did not take the bait.


......and of course I do agree with you. JMM is a whole different animal when it comes to boxing.
MAB is more predictable in his boxing in that he mainly just circles and jabs. MAB is to reliant on that left jab when he boxes, and against fighters who are strong and can punch like Pac and Rocky Juarez.....MAB's boxing is'nt quite good enough so that he can sit in the pocket and disect and counter two fisted.

JMM is a better boxer than MAB when it comes to sitting in the pocket, lateraling and turning, and really standing his ground at center ring.
It helps that JMM can punch extremely hard with either hand and has more of a variety of punches and punching angles to which to turn to.
Marquez works off of and has a solid jab, but he can also outbox the pants off of a fighter without using his jab because he has such a variety of punches and punching angles in which he attempts to punch out of.
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Old 12-23-2007, 03:06 AM   #36
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Default Re: Pacquiao is still one dimensional..

Quote:
Originally Posted by divac
MAB tried boxing when he was getting his ass kicked in their first matchup, and Pac was able to box with him, even getting the better of some of the boxing related exchanges.

The rematch was a more controlled Pac because he was sensing that MAB knew what he was up too.
MAB wanted for Pac to get reckless, so that he could have Pac coming forward and he stricly countering, but Pac did not take the bait.


......and of course I do agree with you. JMM is a whole different animal when it comes to boxing.
MAB is more predictable in his boxing in that he mainly just circles and jabs. MAB is to reliant on that left jab when he boxes, and against fighters who are strong and can punch like Pac and Rocky Juarez.....MAB's boxing is'nt quite good enough so that he can sit in the pocket and disect and counter two fisted.

JMM is a better boxer than MAB when it comes to sitting in the pocket, lateraling and turning, and really standing his ground at center ring.
It helps that JMM can punch extremely hard with either hand and has more of a variety of punches and punching angles to which to turn to.
Marquez works off of and has a solid jab, but he can also outbox the pants off of a fighter without using his jab because he has such a variety of punches and punching angles in which he attempts to punch out of.
MAB does not have the right hand and boxing skills that JMM has and I think that is the reason he could not defeat and will never defeat Pac.

Pac Vs MAB I = Pac kicked MAB ass. There was no outboxing.
Pac VS MAB II = MAB tried to survive. How can a boxer like Pac can outbox somebody that is trying to survive? You can't outbox a boxer that is trying to survive... but you can outbox a boxer that box or fight... or lets say try to defeat you.

Many of the so called hardcore Pac fans say that Pac outboxed MAB in the second fight...I did not see that (I think Pac hardcore fans say that because of the scorecards). At the same time they say thay Pac coud not KO MAB because MAB just tried to survive....and that's why Pac did not look good that night.

My question is....is it possible to outbox somebody that does not want to fight at his best and just try to survive?.... Is it possible to outbox somebody that doesn't want to trade?
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Old 12-23-2007, 03:46 AM   #37
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Default Re: Pacquiao is still one dimensional..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thinman
MAB does not have the right hand and boxing skills that JMM has and I think that is the reason he could not defeat and will never defeat Pac.

Pac Vs MAB I = Pac kicked MAB ass. There was no outboxing.
Pac VS MAB II = MAB tried to survive. How can a boxer like Pac can outbox somebody that is trying to survive? You can't outbox a boxer that is trying to survive... but you can outbox a boxer that box or fight... or lets say try to defeat you.

Many of the so called hardcore Pac fans say that Pac outboxed MAB in the second fight...I did not see that (I think Pac hardcore fans say that because of the scorecards). At the same time they say thay Pac coud not KO MAB because MAB just tried to survive....and that's why Pac did not look good that night.

My question is....is it possible to outbox somebody that does not want to fight at his best and just try to survive?.... Is it possible to outbox somebody that doesn't want to trade?
I disagree!

Imo, MAB's mindset was that he had planned to do what he did in his rematch with Rocky Juarez......circle and jab....all the way through.
The only problem was that Pac does'nt fight like Rocky Juarez, with his feet stuck in mud.
In turn, Pac did what was neccesary to imo win 8 or 9 or the rounds by outlanding MAB and being more active.

Pac did use his jab well, and he kept MAB off balance by giving MAB headmovement, and footwork to manuever in and around MAB.
Last time I checked, that is called boxing!

Yes, MAB seemed reluctant and psyched out from just facing the man that had whipped him every which way that last time they fought.
MAB did fight a survival fight, but any way you cut it, Pac did all the necessary things to nullify what MAB had intended to do.
Pac outboxed MAB!
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Old 12-23-2007, 03:57 AM   #38
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Default Re: Pacquiao is still one dimensional..

Quote:
Originally Posted by divac
I disagree!

Imo, MAB's mindset was that he had planned to do what he did in his rematch with Rocky Juarez......circle and jab....all the way through.
The only problem was that Pac does'nt fight like Rocky Juarez, with his feet stuck in mud.
In turn, Pac did what was neccesary to imo win 8 or 9 or the rounds by outlanding MAB and being more active.

Pac did use his jab well, and he kept MAB off balance by giving MAB headmovement, and footwork to manuever in and around MAB.
Last time I checked, that is called boxing!

Yes, MAB seemed reluctant and psyched out from just facing the man that had whipped him every which way that last time they fought.
MAB did fight a survival fight, but any way you cut it, Pac did all the necessary things to nullify what MAB had intended to do.
Pac outboxed MAB!
Wow divac you really are proving that you are unbiased, but sometimes you seems to pick pacfans alike. Anyways props to you dude you are a good analyst and unbias as well. I hope 4rnder can learn a lot from you with his constant trolling.
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Old 12-23-2007, 04:10 AM   #39
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Default Re: Pacquiao is still one dimensional..

Quote:
Originally Posted by mad_takamura
Wow divac you really are proving that you are unbiased, but sometimes you seems to pick pacfans alike. Anyways props to you dude you are a good analyst and unbias as well. I hope 4rnder can learn a lot from you with his constant trolling.
Well thankyou mt!

Whether is was because MAB fought to survive or not, Pac still had to box, and find ways to outlanded MAB in just about every round.

Its there for all of us to see.

There was a big difference between what Rocky Juarez was able to do in his rematch with MAB with a moving target, and what Pac was able to do with MAB using the same game plan.
At the very least, Pac certainly proved there was more dimensions in him than Rocky Juarez.
Hell, Pac took the last 6 rounds in a row from MAB, and he did'nt do it by just one twoing MAB.
No question he outboxed MAB!

......but I warn you my friend, that scenario is highly unlikely to playout against JMM for the reasons I and Thinman have already pointed out!
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Old 12-23-2007, 04:15 AM   #40
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Default Re: Pacquiao is still one dimensional..

Quote:
Originally Posted by divac
I disagree!

Imo, MAB's mindset was that he had planned to do what he did in his rematch with Rocky Juarez......circle and jab....all the way through.
The only problem was that Pac does'nt fight like Rocky Juarez, with his feet stuck in mud.
In turn, Pac did what was neccesary to imo win 8 or 9 or the rounds by outlanding MAB and being more active.

Pac did use his jab well, and he kept MAB off balance by giving MAB headmovement, and footwork to manuever in and around MAB.
Last time I checked, that is called boxing!

Yes, MAB seemed reluctant and psyched out from just facing the man that had whipped him every which way that last time they fought.
MAB did fight a survival fight, but any way you cut it, Pac did all the necessary things to nullify what MAB had intended to do.
Pac outboxed MAB!
Pac did not outbox MAB. Let me give you the other side of the story.

If I know that I am going to lose the fight, and I know that this is my last fight...then I would not want to finish with my ass on the canvas.

MAB knew that he was not going to defeat Pac that night. Everybody knew that shit. He went there to fight but at the same time he did not risk because he knew what was going to happen if he did.

Pac did what he did because MAB was not willing to engage and avoid that....he was ok with what was happening.... at the same time Pac was ok with that too and that's why the fight was like that.

MAB only tried to do something, but he did not push. That is why you might see it the way you see it. MAB was affraid to finish his career with his ass on the canvas.

Last edited by Chaney; 11-21-2006 at 09:06 AM.
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Old 12-23-2007, 04:22 AM   #41
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Default Re: Pacquiao is still one dimensional..

Divac, I have to go to bed. I will answer any questions later on today. Have a good one.

Merry Xmas and Happy New Year.
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Old 12-23-2007, 04:31 AM   #42
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Default Re: Pacquiao is still one dimensional..

Quote:
Originally Posted by domngo
If Pac didn't outbox Barrera, how do you call his effort then? Pac outran Barrera? That's ridiculous!
I call it....MAB survived by avoiding the whole night having any contact that might cause him ending with his ass on the canvas.

It is not about what Pac did....It is about what Pac did not do or what MAB did not do. MAB knew the outcome of the fight as well as many of us...he just tried to survive...

Many Pac fans have said on this board the same thing that I am saying about MAB trying to survive and doing nothing.

Outpointing somebody is one thing....Outboxing somebody is something different. Don't get confused.
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Old 12-23-2007, 04:31 AM   #43
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Default Re: Pacquiao is still one dimensional..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thinman
Pac did not outbox MAB. Let me give you the other side of the story.

If I know that I am going to lose the fight, and I know that this is my last fight...then I would not want to finish with my ass on the canvas.

MAB knew that he was not going to defeat Pac that night. Everybody knew that shit. He went there to fight but at the same time he did not risk because he knew what was going to happen if he did.

Pac did what he did because MAB was not willing to engage and avoid that....he was ok with what was happening.... at the same time Pac was ok with that too and that's why the fight was like that.

MAB only tried to do something, but he did not push. That is why you might see it the way you see it. MAB was affraid to finish his career with his ass on the canvas.

MAB fought exactly the same way against Juarez that he did vs Pac in both rematches......

Like in the Pac fight, MAB was unwilling to engage Juarez.

That was a survival type of fight MAB fought against Juarez, the crowd was even booing and forums like these criticized MAB heavily.
.....but that type of survival fight by MAB still abled MAB to outbox Juarez, but against Pac.....many attributes like speed, quickness, footwork, etc.....did'nt allow MAB to do the same to him.

All these attributes that Pac has are part of what it takes to outbox an opponent

Just because MAB fought to survive does'nt take away from the others ability to box him while he survives. In many circumstances its harder to outbox someone thats there to survive.
Fighters often times end up looking clumsy on their way to outboxing someone there to survive.
To Pac's credit, that did'nt happen to him.
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Old 12-26-2007, 07:31 AM   #44
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Default Re: Pacquiao is still one dimensional..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Executioner
why does everyone refuse to believe he's not anymore? because he added a right hook and a few body punches into his arsenal?

don't get me wrong, that one dimension is very tough for the other 130 pounders to beat due to pac's intensity, speed, power and sheer aggression but him adding a right hook and a few bodypunches to his arsenal does NOT make him more versatile.

It'd be a whole different story if pac's inside game improved, he does not have much of an inside game. it'd also be different if he out boxed people

floyd mayweather and miguel cotto..now those guys can adapt, they can box you or brawl.


\

PACMAN is a one dimensional or no dimensional or whatever you call....CLASS D fighter...or E...OR whatever letter of the alphabet....who fights your so called CLASS A fighters and yet gets the job DONE....so your ADJECTIVES just don't make sense. Knock it off will you....
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Old 12-26-2007, 10:40 AM   #45
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Default Re: Pacquiao is still one dimensional..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Executioner
why does everyone refuse to believe he's not anymore? because he added a right hook and a few body punches into his arsenal?

don't get me wrong, that one dimension is very tough for the other 130 pounders to beat due to pac's intensity, speed, power and sheer aggression but him adding a right hook and a few bodypunches to his arsenal does NOT make him more versatile.

It'd be a whole different story if pac's inside game improved, he does not have much of an inside game. it'd also be different if he out boxed people

floyd mayweather and miguel cotto..now those guys can adapt, they can box you or brawl.


Look...to say that GREAT FIGHTERS like EM, MAB and JMM can't beat a one demensional fighter even after a 2nd try would be criminal.....these guys are GREAT fighters.

For anyone to say that a one demensional fighter not only beats but dominates MULTI demension and great fighters is disrespectful to guys like JMM, MAB and EM.

Pac isn't the most "ORTHODOX" boxer with sharp and precise technique, but he has many demensions! Most are natrual abilities that he's been blessed with others are added technique and skills taught by Roach. But no one can change PAC's unorthodox style.

If Pac didn't hook up with Roach or any other highly respected and proven trainer his natrual ability and talent wouldn't have been polished and brought to the forefront. PAC has multi demensions they just aren't as common in the world of boxing.....Guys like Roy jones and Floyd Mayweather have these talents that aren't common...PAC joins that group.
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