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Old 12-20-2007, 03:12 PM   #16
Vanboxingfan
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Default Re: Holmes or Lewis?

For me they are close, and both are under appreciated icons in the sport. I use to have Holmes ahead of Lewis but I was very impressed with the way in which Lewis ended his career. I thought the win against Vitali was huge and I also felt very few fighters, (actually I don't think any other 37 year old fighter could have, with the possible exception of Foreman) at Lewis' age could have managed it. As such I now have Lewis one ranking above Holmes. I'm also in the minority, but I think both fighters have a good chance of beating Ali, due to their styles. I'm not saying they rank higher, just that on a h2h basis they, and perhaps a peak tyson have the best chance of beating him.
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Old 12-20-2007, 05:18 PM   #17
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Default Re: Holmes or Lewis?

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Originally Posted by Mendoza
About even. For what its worth Frank ****** who promoted Lewis felt Holmes was better.
Frank ****** never promoted Lewis!
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Old 12-20-2007, 05:20 PM   #18
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Default Re: Holmes or Lewis?

With the same referee that waved Lewis off aginst McCall, Holmes wouldnt have been allowed to continue against Snipes or Shavers.
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Old 12-21-2007, 09:09 AM   #19
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Default Re: Holmes or Lewis?

I rank Holmes at 4, Lewis at 10, and I am really inclined to move Lewis into Fraziers spot at 8. Maybe even 7 into Foreman's spot. I am re-thinking my list.
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Old 12-21-2007, 10:24 AM   #20
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Default Re: Holmes or Lewis?

I go back and forth about how I rate these fighters. Usually I never have one more than a step above or below the other. Holmes was undefeated through 48 pro fights and 19 successful defenses before losing by a close decision at the age of 35. Yes he avoided some very good fighters, but Lewis didn't exactly give shots to Chris Byrd, or Wladimir Klitschko, either. Holmes had some close calls against guys like Witherspoon and Williams, but Lewis was actually beaten by McCall and Rahman, along with recieving a very questionable decision over Mercer. Holmes never unified the title nor avenged any of his losses, whereas Lewis did, so there's some points for Lennox. Both men fought a fair share of good and bad opponents, I won't try and break them down for comparison purposes, but on the surface, Lewis's comp seems to be a little bit better overall.

I don't know, I suppose both men have their equal share of pluses and minuses, and are worthy of being rated in the 3-6 range.
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Old 12-21-2007, 10:32 AM   #21
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Default Re: Holmes or Lewis?

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Originally Posted by RoccoMarciano
I agree about them being very close in ability. Regarding the Frank ****** stuff, could you post that on here, or possibly PM the remarks to me? I'd never read that before and am interested.

Thanks!
Frank ****** didnt promote Lewis, and he basically will degrade any British fighter that isnt promoted by him, so i wouldnt take him too seriously mate.

IMO there very close together, both excellent fighters.
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Old 12-21-2007, 10:43 AM   #22
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Default Re: Holmes or Lewis?

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Originally Posted by mr. magoo
I go back and forth about how I rate these fighters. Usually I never have one more than a step above or below the other. Holmes was undefeated through 48 pro fights and 19 successful defenses before losing by a close decision at the age of 35. Yes he avoided some very good fighters, but Lewis didn't exactly give shots to Chris Byrd, or Wladimir Klitschko, either. Holmes had some close calls against guys like Witherspoon and Williams, but Lewis was actually beaten by McCall and Rahman, along with recieving a very questionable decision over Mercer. Holmes never unified the title nor avenged any of his losses, whereas Lewis did, so there's some points for Lennox. Both men fought a fair share of good and bad opponents, I won't try and break them down for comparison purposes, but on the surface, Lewis's comp seems to be a little bit better overall.

I don't know, I suppose both men have their equal share of pluses and minuses, and are worthy of being rated in the 3-6 range.
I think we all know what I am thinking about the 2nd Holmes-Spinks fight.
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Old 12-21-2007, 10:46 AM   #23
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Default Re: Holmes or Lewis?

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Originally Posted by Bill1234
I think we all know what I am thinking about the 2nd Holmes-Spinks fight.
I agree completley, that Holmes-Spinks II was a robbery and one of the worst in heavyweight history, but we can't credit Holmes for a victory that he didn't receive, even if he earned it.
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Old 12-21-2007, 11:03 AM   #24
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Default Re: Holmes or Lewis?

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Originally Posted by mr. magoo
I agree completley, that Holmes-Spinks II was a robbery and one of the worst in heavyweight history, but we can't credit Holmes for a victory that he didn't receive, even if he earned it.
Yeah, I know.
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Old 12-21-2007, 11:04 AM   #25
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Default Re: Holmes or Lewis?

I put Lewis above Holmes, barely. He beat better competition, and I think head to head the Manny trained Lewis would UD or possibly KO the Holmes of Holmes championship years. Holmes was hurt bad by guys who did not have the combination of Lewis skills and power, and given a similar situation to say Snipes, Lewis would finish him off.

Although Lewis avenged both his KO losses convincingly, those two losses are a blight on his great record, so I cannot rank him top 5.
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Old 12-21-2007, 11:08 AM   #26
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Default Re: Holmes or Lewis?

It was Frank Maloney - Lewis's manager/promoter - who says he thinks Holmes was better.
For whatever that's worth.

My opinion, Holmes was greater, yes.
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Old 12-21-2007, 11:10 AM   #27
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Default Re: Holmes or Lewis?

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Originally Posted by Sonny's jab
It was Frank Maloney - Lewis's manager/promoter - who says he thinks Holmes was better.
For whatever that's worth.

My opinion, Holmes was greater, yes.
I'm not disagreeing with you, but just out of curiosity what are your reasons for saying that Holmes was greater?
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Old 12-21-2007, 11:29 AM   #28
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Default Re: Holmes or Lewis?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rekcutnevets
I rank Holmes higher all time, and give him the nod head to head as well.
I have both in my top 10, and only have them around 2 place from one another. Had Lewis been able to get a shot at Riddick Bowe, and succeded, I may feel differently.

I think Holmes difference in hand speed would be the key element in defeating Lewis. If you watch both perform against Mercer, even the older Holmes hands seemed faster. Mercer seemed bigger and stronger vs. Lewis than he did against Holmes, I'm not saying Holmes necesarily beat a better Mercer.
Holmes faced an undefeated Mercer who was coming off the best win of his careeer.

Lewis faced a Mercer who, came in very formidable, had seen better days.


Its a wash to me.

Nonetheless, I rank Holmes alot higher than Lewis, Longer reign at the top also he's just as proven as a fighter if not more so.

Lewis was always considered a top contender throughout the 90s but never really considered THE Champion until 1999. Therefore Lewis's reign is from 1999-2003.
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Old 12-21-2007, 12:03 PM   #29
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Default Re: Holmes or Lewis?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr. magoo
I'm not disagreeing with you, but just out of curiosity what are your reasons for saying that Holmes was greater?
He was undefeated for longer, fought lots of good punchers but only ever got stopped once (as a rusty over-the-hill fighter against a peak Tyson), I think he was a more polished boxer for a long time, technically better IMO, his performances in his 40s suggest that in his prime he was better at his craft than anyone of the later era - eg. he beat Mercer convincingly, gave McCall a tough fight, even show brief glimpses against a prime Holyfield.

Also, overall in his career he arguably faced opposition that was as good or perhaps slightly better than those who Lewis fought.
All just opinion mind you.
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Old 12-21-2007, 12:11 PM   #30
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Default Re: Holmes or Lewis?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonny's jab
He was undefeated for longer, fought lots of good punchers but only ever got stopped once (as a rusty over-the-hill fighter against a peak Tyson), I think he was a more polished boxer for a long time, technically better IMO, his performances in his 40s suggest that in his prime he was better at his craft than anyone of the later era - eg. he beat Mercer convincingly, gave McCall a tough fight, even show brief glimpses against a prime Holyfield.

Also, overall in his career he arguably faced opposition that was as good or perhaps slightly better than those who Lewis fought.
All just opinion mind you.
Yeah, I think these are some pretty fair points overall. I personally rate their opposition as being fairly close to equal, but people all have varying opinions on that. The biggest criticism that people have with Holmes is not fighting Greg Page or Pinklon Thomas, but personally I think that has been blown into a big deal by certain individuals on this forum more so than any place else. It wasn't as though he ducked someone like Joe Frazier. Most people didn't even know who the hell Page and Thomas were, and even fewer remember them today.
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