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Old 12-08-2011, 07:14 AM   #61
cesare-borgia
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Default Re: What would Cotto need to do to surpass Tito???

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Not that I disagree with you, but it's funny how so many people (pactards mainly) consider Pac a top 20 ATG.
how come?
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Old 12-08-2011, 07:21 AM   #62
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Default Re: What would Cotto need to do to surpass Tito???

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Someone please give me Tito's best 5 wins?

(In your opinion obviously)
Vargas, campas, old whitaker, camacho, joppy, reid.
One of these is his best win I guess, based on name its whitaker but he was drugged and shot I dont see why that has more value than oscars win over chavez.
But logically its either joppy or vargas, Lets say that trinidads longetivity helps his legacy a lot rather than his wins.
Ow and I didnt add the obvious "win" on his resume since he clearly lost that fight.
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Old 12-08-2011, 07:28 AM   #63
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Default Re: What would Cotto need to do to surpass Tito???

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Originally Posted by cesare-borgia View Post
Vargas, campas, old whitaker, camacho, joppy, reid.
One of these is his best win I guess, based on name its whitaker but he was drugged and shot I dont see why that has more value than oscars win over chavez.
But logically its either joppy or vargas, Lets say that trinidads longetivity helps his legacy a lot rather than his wins.
Ow and I didnt add the obvious "win" on his resume since he clearly lost that fight.

I've never credited him with a win over Oscar, he looked poor in that fight, and had problems dealing with fighters who moved side to side.

Sweat Pea as you mentioned was at the end of the road, and the fight was still reasonably competitive, (as expected, Pea was never going to be a walkover, and showed a good chin in that fight.)

Vargas could be considered green, but that was as good as he ever got, so yes a good win for Tito.

Campas had a fantastic record, but I'm really not sure how good he was.
Etc.

If Tito had beaten either Hopkins or Wright (out of his weightclass yes) then I think that would be considered his best win. He should of fought Mosley at some point too.

Ricans love Tito for his passion, his national pride; more so than his achivements in Boxing.
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Old 12-08-2011, 07:33 AM   #64
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Default Re: What would Cotto need to do to surpass Tito???

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I've never credited him with a win over Oscar, he looked poor in that fight, and had problems dealing with fighters who moved side to side.

Sweat Pea as you mentioned was at the end of the road, and the fight was still reasonably competitive, (as expected, Pea was never going to be a walkover, and showed a good chin in that fight.)

Vargas could be considered green, but that was as good as he ever got, so yes a good win for Tito.

Campas had a fantastic record, but I'm really not sure how good he was.
Etc.

If Tito had beaten either Hopkins or Wright (out of his weightclass yes) then I think that would be considered his best win. He should of fought Mosley at some point too.

Ricans love Tito for his passion, his national pride; more so than his achivements in Boxing.
well said.
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Old 12-08-2011, 07:36 AM   #65
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Default Re: What would Cotto need to do to surpass Tito???

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Originally Posted by SJS19 View Post
I've never credited him with a win over Oscar, he looked poor in that fight, and had problems dealing with fighters who moved side to side.

Sweat Pea as you mentioned was at the end of the road, and the fight was still reasonably competitive, (as expected, Pea was never going to be a walkover, and showed a good chin in that fight.)

Vargas could be considered green, but that was as good as he ever got, so yes a good win for Tito.

Campas had a fantastic record, but I'm really not sure how good he was.
Etc.

If Tito had beaten either Hopkins or Wright (out of his weightclass yes) then I think that would be considered his best win. He should of fought Mosley at some point too.

Ricans love Tito for his passion, his national pride; more so than his achivements in Boxing.
true
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Old 12-08-2011, 08:17 AM   #66
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Default Re: What would Cotto need to do to surpass Tito???

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Realistically speaking, he'd have to go back in time, hope there's a God, and pray for better overall ability, because he doesn't have what it takes to surpass Trinidad. Not a knock on him, he's had a wonderful career, but he's just not a great fighter and he's lacking in too many areas.

For the sake of giving an answer, if he beat Mayweather, Pacquiao, Martinez at middleweight, and defeated a number of guys like Alvarez, Lara, Kirkland, Dzinziruk, Chavez Jr, etc., he'd have a case. But it's not going to happen.
What the **** is surpasing Tito not God.
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Old 12-08-2011, 08:21 AM   #67
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Default Re: What would Cotto need to do to surpass Tito???

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i agree with this

his best chance to have a prayer of passing Tito would be beating the p4p 1 or 2 or both but i just dont see it

or moving up and beating Sturm or Martinez

beating Canelo in a unification would be huge too or moving up and taking on Chavez but i dont see him beating Chavez

Tito had some great fighters like De La Hoya and Vargas and Whitaker and Camacho floating around at his time

not to mention he beat some good but not great fighters at probably their best stages of their careers

56-0 Campas, 32-0 Carr, Mayorga pretty good version, Reid and Joppy

1 loss in his prime and then came back and got embarrassed twice

Cotto has won 2 titles that were vacant and never successfully unified his belts

Trinidad did this twice
Well Hea Beat Clottey when He was the IBF champion too bad He vacated the title to fight Cotto.
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Old 12-08-2011, 09:04 AM   #68
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Default Re: What would Cotto need to do to surpass Tito???

Beat Pacquiao and Mayweather at 147lbs.
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Old 12-08-2011, 09:34 AM   #69
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Default Re: What would Cotto need to do to surpass Tito???

If I was Cotto I'd go for Chavez's MW title, then fight Martinez at 150 in prep for a Pac rematch, then a Pac rematch. After that either retire or fight Canelo (if the hype is still strong with him) and then retire.

If he wins atleast those first three fights, that will put him up there with the best of his era with Pac and Mayweather and would represent a career comeback of epic proportions.
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Old 12-08-2011, 09:55 AM   #70
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Default Re: What would Cotto need to do to surpass Tito???

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Originally Posted by SJS19 View Post
I've never credited him with a win over Oscar, he looked poor in that fight, and had problems dealing with fighters who moved side to side.

Sweat Pea as you mentioned was at the end of the road, and the fight was still reasonably competitive, (as expected, Pea was never going to be a walkover, and showed a good chin in that fight.)

Vargas could be considered green, but that was as good as he ever got, so yes a good win for Tito.

Campas had a fantastic record, but I'm really not sure how good he was.
Etc.

If Tito had beaten either Hopkins or Wright (out of his weightclass yes) then I think that would be considered his best win. He should of fought Mosley at some point too.

Ricans love Tito for his passion, his national pride; more so than his achivements in Boxing.

The person at fault for the lack of action on the fight versus Oscar, was Oscar himself, so lets get that out of the way. And regardless of what most people think Tito won the fight and thats it.

I dont know which Sweetpea fight you saw because the fight I saw Tito dominated the entire fight, broke Sweetpea's jaw and knocked him (something that had never been done before) so YES that was a good win for Tito.

So now Vargas was too green, uh? I dont ****ing get this. When the fight is about to happen everyone and their mother says, Vargas will KO Tito. The fight happenes, people see the results and now he was too green. GTFO!!!! Blame Vargas' management company for that but g-damn give Tito credit.

Campas at the time of their fight was 56-0 and considered my many as the next JCC, so that should tell you how good he was. Because I am guessing you started watching boxing the other day and got all of you boxing "expertise" from youtube and forums.

Tito had great fight throughout his career, his first tittle fight challenge versus Maurice Blocker was a thing of beauty.

Yes, he could had fought Mosley but Mosley didnt want to no part of Tito until Tito lost against Hopkins. Mosley came up to 147lbs after Tito had gone up to 154lbs, where he fought Reid, Thiam, Vargas and won all three fights in dominating fashion. Tito beat THREE gold medalists, something many have not done.

On to the topic of the thread, if Cotto KOs Pacquiao in a rematch, and somehows beats Sergio in a brutal fight, he will close to Tito in my eyes. I could say beat PBF but we all know that will never happen.
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Old 12-08-2011, 09:59 AM   #71
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Default Re: What would Cotto need to do to surpass Tito???

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Originally Posted by papolamuerte View Post
The person at fault for the lack of action on the fight versus Oscar, was Oscar himself, so lets get that out of the way. And regardless of what most people think Tito won the fight and thats it.

I dont know which Sweetpea fight you saw because the fight I saw Tito dominated the entire fight, broke Sweetpea's jaw and knocked him (something that had never been done before) so YES that was a good win for Tito.

So now Vargas was too green, uh? I dont ****ing get this. When the fight is about to happen everyone and their mother says, Vargas will KO Tito. The fight happenes, people see the results and now he was too green. GTFO!!!! Blame Vargas' management company for that but g-damn give Tito credit.

Campas at the time of their fight was 56-0 and considered my many as the next JCC, so that should tell you how good he was. Because I am guessing you started watching boxing the other day and got all of you boxing "expertise" from youtube and forums.

Tito had great fight throughout his career, his first tittle fight challenge versus Maurice Blocker was a thing of beauty.

Yes, he could had fought Mosley but Mosley didnt want to no part of Tito until Tito lost against Hopkins. Mosley came up to 147lbs after Tito had gone up to 154lbs, where he fought Reid, Thiam, Vargas and won all three fights in dominating fashion. Tito beat THREE gold medalists, something many have not done.

On to the topic of the thread, if Cotto KOs Pacquiao in a rematch, and somehows beats Sergio in a brutal fight, he will close to Tito in my eyes. I could say beat PBF but we all know that will never happen.

Tito was NOT the first person to KD Pea...and Pea, who was old shot and a coke head, still had his moments against a bigger, stronger, younger, prime Tito...

No need to go about the Oscar fight...everyone already knows whats up with that one...


and more importantly: Thats one ****ing hot mami you got on your Avi!
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Old 12-08-2011, 10:02 AM   #72
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Default Re: What would Cotto need to do to surpass Tito???

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Originally Posted by papolamuerte View Post
The person at fault for the lack of action on the fight versus Oscar, was Oscar himself, so lets get that out of the way. And regardless of what most people think Tito won the fight and thats it.

I dont know which Sweetpea fight you saw because the fight I saw Tito dominated the entire fight, broke Sweetpea's jaw and knocked him (something that had never been done before) so YES that was a good win for Tito.

So now Vargas was too green, uh? I dont ****ing get this. When the fight is about to happen everyone and their mother says, Vargas will KO Tito. The fight happenes, people see the results and now he was too green. GTFO!!!! Blame Vargas' management company for that but g-damn give Tito credit.

Campas at the time of their fight was 56-0 and considered my many as the next JCC, so that should tell you how good he was. Because I am guessing you started watching boxing the other day and got all of you boxing "expertise" from youtube and forums.

Tito had great fight throughout his career, his first tittle fight challenge versus Maurice Blocker was a thing of beauty.

Yes, he could had fought Mosley but Mosley didnt want to no part of Tito until Tito lost against Hopkins. Mosley came up to 147lbs after Tito had gone up to 154lbs, where he fought Reid, Thiam, Vargas and won all three fights in dominating fashion. Tito beat THREE gold medalists, something many have not done.

On to the topic of the thread, if Cotto KOs Pacquiao in a rematch, and somehows beats Sergio in a brutal fight, he will close to Tito in my eyes. I could say beat PBF but we all know that will never happen.
no offense, but when someone inspires passion and belief in you (especially when they do that under the same flag as you), then you're going to back them no matter what.

the brits do it with calzaghe, and you guys do it with tito.

both HOF fighters, but neither were great
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Old 12-08-2011, 11:33 AM   #73
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Default Re: What would Cotto need to do to surpass Tito???

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no offense, but when someone inspires passion and belief in you (especially when they do that under the same flag as you), then you're going to back them no matter what.

the brits do it with calzaghe, and you guys do it with tito.

both HOF fighters, but neither were great
I disagree about Tito. Tito was great at 147, Calzaghe is not great you're right about that.
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Old 12-08-2011, 11:37 AM   #74
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Default Re: What would Cotto need to do to surpass Tito???

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I disagree about Tito. Tito was great at 147, Calzaghe is not great you're right about that.
if i made a top 10 list of fighters i loved to watch tito would be on it, but against technically sound fighters who moved he was way out of his depth.

great fighter to watch, but not great
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Old 12-08-2011, 11:43 AM   #75
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Default Re: What would Cotto need to do to surpass Tito???

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Someone please give me Tito's best 5 wins?

(In your opinion obviously)
1. Vargas
2. Campas
3. Carr
4. Whitaker
5. Joppy

I'd mention David Reid too. Reid had the makings to be a quality fighter but was let down by his eyes and this crazy match making.

HM: Pineda, Camacho, Blocker, Barnes, Mayorga.
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