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Old 07-31-2007, 08:01 PM   #46
boxfan99
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Default Re: Larsen needs a knockout

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Originally Posted by Jens S
Geee, so why did they do so much ethnic clenching? Stalin did it, just ask the jews or ukrainians. It didn't matter if they were communists. Pol Pot killed most anybody with a non-cambodian ethnicity. The idea was to create countries where people were the same and belonged to the state. If you came from a communist country, you were not an individual that could choose nationality. Because you were in reality owned by the state.

Communist thinking is that the individual doesn't count, and they are in reality the property of the state.

Western/liberal thinking is that you are an individual and you can make choices in your life. If you go to another country and get citizensship, you are then citizen there and not in your old country. People that are comming to Denmark and getting citizenship here are danes. Danes that go to other countries and citizenship there are no longer danes. That includes also sport stars.

Jens
Jens, you are so wrong about this, just take a look at the muslims from the middle-east or the asian minorities in Denmark or the decendants of the east-European refugees Denmark recieved after WWII, all these people do not feel like Danes, they feel like a mixture of their old nationality and the Danish.

The same applies to Danes who go to live in other countries. A part of them are still "Danish" deep down, and I know the same would apply to me if I got another citizenship, I would still consider myself part Dane at heart. Just because you chose to live another place doesn't mean that you chose to forget where you came from.

Of course one could point at people from America, Australia and other places like that, and say that these people are 100% Americans or Aussies, but that has taken generations for them too get to this state.
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Old 08-01-2007, 04:23 AM   #47
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Default Re: Larsen needs a knockout

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Jens, you are so wrong about this, just take a look at the muslims from the middle-east or the asian minorities in Denmark or the decendants of the east-European refugees Denmark recieved after WWII, all these people do not feel like Danes, they feel like a mixture of their old nationality and the Danish.

The same applies to Danes who go to live in other countries. A part of them are still "Danish" deep down, and I know the same would apply to me if I got another citizenship, I would still consider myself part Dane at heart. Just because you chose to live another place doesn't mean that you chose to forget where you came from.

Of course one could point at people from America, Australia and other places like that, and say that these people are 100% Americans or Aussies, but that has taken generations for them too get to this state.
Exactly! It takes more than a document to change one's identity, even if one does one's utmost to change into the chosen identity as quickly as possible. The Danish approach is overly legalistic - I wonder, would people call a man who's had JUST had the operation and started taking female hormones a "WOMAN", or would they call him/her "a bloke who's JUST had the operation and is taking female hormones"?

Maybe the Danish approach is trying to maintain social unity, by not allowing any differences between ethnicities to rock the boat...but to do it in such a crude way...I'm not sure it's doing the trick...in fact it's more likely to backfire, and make recent citizens feel guilty and "real" Danes feel resentful...
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Old 08-01-2007, 09:04 AM   #48
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Default Re: Larsen needs a knockout

They feel a part of them is dane, becuase they are ethnic danes and their origin is Denmark, but they are not danes anymore. When we discuss where a fighter is from, it is his citizenship that decides. Not if he was born in some country. Not what ethnic group he belongs to (else there would be no american heavyweight champ ever). Danish-americans feel a part of them is dane, because of their origin/ethnic group, but they are americans. A danish-american fighter is not a dane. He is american.

Jens

PS. The term "danish-american" does not suggest they are danes. It just tells you about the ethnicity of an american.
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Old 08-01-2007, 09:09 AM   #49
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Default Re: Larsen needs a knockout

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Originally Posted by Jens S
They feel a part of them is dane, becuase they are ethnic danes and their origin is Denmark, but they are not danes anymore. When we discuss where a fighter is from, it is his citizenship that decides. Not if he was born in some country. Not what ethnic group he belongs to (else there would be no american heavyweight champ ever). Danish-americans feel a part of them is dane, because of their origin/ethnic group, but they are americans. A danish-american fighter is not a dane. He is american.

Jens

PS. The term "danish-american" does not suggest they are danes. It just tells you about the ethnicity of an american.
They are not Danish citizens, sure, and maybe root for the other side, but not Danish?? Danish-American, yeah, I can live with that...sure, you could argue that it just tells you about the ethnicity of an American, but ethnicity is important, that's why they call themselves Danish-Americans...Also, bear in mind that in America, ethnicity is not as important as say, in Denmark, because the former is a country of immigrants...the latter, not so...
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Old 08-01-2007, 09:47 AM   #50
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Default Re: Larsen needs a knockout

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Hm, donīt know. Many of my friends here are of turkish descendence but were born and raised here. They speak turkish when they talk to each other and are muslims but they speak German as well as Turkish and see the German culture also as their own . They consider themselves as Turkish AND German and so they are. Same goes for a guy like Felix Sturm. He was born and raised here, in some interviews he says he is German in others he says is Bosnian. The truth is, he is both.
So when somebody lives a very large part of his live in another country he is from there as much as from the country he originally came.
Dead on!
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Old 08-01-2007, 10:19 AM   #51
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Default Re: Larsen needs a knockout

Yeah, you just come to the embassy of a nation and tell that you FEEL like a person from that nation. Then I am sure they will help you

But let's stop here and just agree to disagree. As I wrote initially: it is a futile discussion.

Jens


PS. Today I feel Swiss and expect a cuckoo clock!
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Old 08-01-2007, 10:24 AM   #52
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Default Re: Larsen needs a knockout

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Originally Posted by Jens S
Yeah, you just come to the embassy of a nation and tell that you FEEL like a person from that nation. Then I am sure they will help you

But let's stop here and just agree to disagree. As I wrote initially: it is a futile discussion.

Jens


PS. Today I feel Swiss and expect a cuckoo clock!
there were quite a few British Asians (Muslims) in Guantanamo for quite a while who protested their innocence and the British government did **** all...in fact, they helped interrogate them...I reckon this would not have been the case had they been "real" Englishmen...

...so, it wasn't their passport that made the biggest difference...

You're right, this discussion is futile, but probably quite a few discussions we might have would likely prove so too...
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Old 08-01-2007, 01:22 PM   #53
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Default Re: Larsen needs a knockout

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jens S
Yeah, you just come to the embassy of a nation and tell that you FEEL like a person from that nation. Then I am sure they will help you

But let's stop here and just agree to disagree. As I wrote initially: it is a futile discussion.

Jens


PS. Today I feel Swiss and expect a cuckoo clock!
Haha! Hey,Swiss,you cant swich your nationality the same way you switch your pants!
Who will you be tomorrow?
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Old 08-10-2007, 11:10 AM   #54
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Default Re: Larsen needs a knockout

Funny thing was Andrade. He was mostly percieved as American although he was mexican but had grown up in the us.
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Old 08-10-2007, 11:11 AM   #55
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Default Re: Larsen needs a knockout

Kipketer was kenyan but had danish passports and nationality, but lived in monaco just as Kessler does
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Old 08-10-2007, 04:03 PM   #56
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Default Re: Larsen needs a knockout

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Kipketer was kenyan but had danish passports and nationality, but lived in monaco just as Kessler does
I thought Kessler domiciled in Germany...
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Old 08-10-2007, 05:01 PM   #57
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Default Re: Larsen needs a knockout

I think he moved to Monaco for tax reasons.
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Old 08-17-2007, 03:36 PM   #58
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Default Re: Larsen needs a knockout

So, anyone wanna bet? I say Larsen wins a boring decision tomorrow.
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Old 08-17-2007, 04:14 PM   #59
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Default Re: Larsen needs a knockout

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So, anyone wanna bet? I say Larsen wins a boring decision tomorrow.
I go with you as Larsen will most probably win via UD bu it will be an entertaining fight cause Hamden will make it entertaining...
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Old 08-17-2007, 07:21 PM   #60
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Default Re: Larsen needs a knockout

will it be on ARD?
and if so - anyone know approximately what time?
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