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Old 12-19-2011, 10:34 PM   #136
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Default Re: Why do UFC champions have journeyman records?

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Old 12-19-2011, 11:24 PM   #137
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Default Re: Why do UFC champions have journeyman records?

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Originally Posted by monaroCountry View Post
And UFC wants to keep it this way, afterall a loss is bad for business. This is why Zuffa doesnt want any of these guys fighting champions from overseas and also doesnt want them fighting each other.
Oh good god

Champions from "overseas"??

like who???

Dana is protecting jon jones by having him fight Shogun, Rampage, and Machida in a year?

Dana was protecting Mexichamp Cain Velasquez by having him fight Dos Santos?


Who should they be fighting? Your made up CIS top 10s??

George St Pierre needs to defend against Enomoto to be a legitimate champ???


Only in your world you lunatic
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Old 12-19-2011, 11:27 PM   #138
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Default Re: Why do UFC champions have journeyman records?

Dana is clearly keeping his fighters from the elite at M1 Global.
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Old 12-21-2011, 01:19 AM   #139
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Default Re: Why do UFC champions have journeyman records?

because mma isnt boxing
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Old 12-21-2011, 04:26 AM   #140
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Default Re: Why do UFC champions have journeyman records?

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Brock did, and that guy cant even punch properly, cant kick, and has no idea on any submissions.

He pretty much got handed the championship belt after around 3 measly fights.

Or on the flipside he beat Heath Herrkng and Randy Couture in his 3rd and 4th pro fights. If anyone else had done that people would have been impressed. It's irrational Brock hate, when he comes back from the brink to beat Carwin it's lucky and he's a bum, when Nog does it against Sapp it's a great achievement.
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Old 12-21-2011, 04:32 AM   #141
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Default Re: Why do UFC champions have journeyman records?

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Or on the flipside he beat Heath Herrkng and Randy Couture in his 3rd and 4th pro fights. If anyone else had done that people would have been impressed. It's irrational Brock hate, when he comes back from the brink to beat Carwin it's lucky and he's a bum, when Nog does it against Sapp it's a great achievement.
Neither is impressive. Fedor DESTROYED a prime Herring. Whilst Brock looked great and very precocious verses a veteran in what was a somewhat of a litmus test at a very early stage in his career, Herring was long past being anything remotely dangerous. Likewise the same is true of Couture. Brock had a serious size advantage. Personally for me that victory flattered him the same way Sapp's victory over Hoost flattered him at the same stage of their careers.

Those fighters Brock faced had name value only. Thus its very important to remember WHEN he fought them and HOW he beat them. Hence the reason why Nogs win over Sapp back then was VERY significant.
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Old 12-21-2011, 05:10 AM   #142
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Default Re: Why do UFC champions have journeyman records?

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The most consecutive HW title defenses in UFC is 2
In its current form, it's a young organization in a young sport. All that stat means is that when a dominant champion inevitably comes along and strings half a dozen defenses together, he will be considered all the greater for it.

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Old 12-21-2011, 05:21 AM   #143
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Default Re: Why do UFC champions have journeyman records?

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Very true

GSP vs Silva
Silva vs Jones
Edgar vs Aldo
Edgar vs GSP
Jones vs Dos Santos

will never get maid.
**** you don't ask for much do you?

You realize that at the start of this year, Jones was only a promising young contender on the way up?

And now you're *****ing because Anderson Silva didn't IMMEDIATELY leap up to light heavyweight and fight him?

You're moaning because the Jones-JDS will never get made? Are you ****ing kidding me? A year ago, neither of them had ever had a title shot.

Or because GSP, a not-particularly-large welterweight, doesn't want to try to jump up to a class that he's too small for and fight a guy who you are simultaneously complaining should be facing the dominant light-heavyweight champion?

In fact, every single one of these matches that you are ****ty about not being made, involves one guy going up a weight class to challenge the champion.

That's ****ing stupid mate, it's not a videogame. Switching divisions to challenge a champion is a rare thing, not an expected thing.

Pull your head out of your ass mate.

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Old 12-21-2011, 07:36 AM   #144
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Default Re: Why do UFC champions have journeyman records?

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**** you don't ask for much do you?

...

You're moaning because the Jones-JDS will never get made?
Correction: maid*

Anyways, GSP might not be particularly large amongst this crop of WWs, but he still walks around at like 190. This douche also wants Edgar to fight GSP. Edgar walks around in the mid 150s. Jose Aldo would be closer in weight to GSP. When they did that super seven thing and had all the champs on stage together even Cruz looked bigger than Edgar.
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Old 12-21-2011, 08:05 AM   #145
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Default Re: Why do UFC champions have journeyman records?

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And UFC wants to keep it this way, afterall a loss is bad for business. This is why Zuffa doesnt want any of these guys fighting champions from overseas and also doesnt want them fighting each other.
Much like how M-1 Global doesn't have Fedor Emelianenko fight any of the great heavyweights they have under contract, instead scratching around for Strikeforce or FEG knockoffs.
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Old 12-21-2011, 02:44 PM   #146
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Default Re: Why do UFC champions have journeyman records?

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Neither is impressive. Fedor DESTROYED a prime Herring. Whilst Brock looked great and very precocious verses a veteran in what was a somewhat of a litmus test at a very early stage in his career, Herring was long past being anything remotely dangerous. Likewise the same is true of Couture. Brock had a serious size advantage. Personally for me that victory flattered him the same way Sapp's victory over Hoost flattered him at the same stage of their careers.

Those fighters Brock faced had name value only. Thus its very important to remember WHEN he fought them and HOW he beat them. Hence the reason why Nogs win over Sapp back then was VERY significant.
It's impressive to be matched up that tough that early on. If you look at Brock's career compared to other up and coming heavyweights of the last few years such as Velasquez, Dos Santos, Cormier, Del Rosario it just gets much tougher much quicker. I know a lot of this is part of the deal when you're on the wages he's on, but objectively it's tough.

Min Soo Kim as a first fight is a gimme, sure.

Frank Mir as a second fight is ridiculous. Not many people get matched with a former UFC champion in their second fight, but sure he lost.

Heath Herring as a third fight is tough. The guy was coming off a win over Kongo at the time and was a top 20 fighter.

Randy Couture as a fourth fight is a tough call for anyone. Sure he was past his best, but he still went the distance with Nogueira. Sure, Brock was bigger but so what? Sylvia was bigger.

Then Mir as a fifth fight, an undefeated Carwin as a sixth fight and an undefeated Cain as a seventh fight, now he's got Overeem as an eighth fight. Life doesn't get much tougher. Even Otsuka would wince at that run.
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Old 12-21-2011, 03:22 PM   #147
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Default Re: Why do UFC champions have journeyman records?

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It's impressive to be matched up that tough that early on. If you look at Brock's career compared to other up and coming heavyweights of the last few years such as Velasquez, Dos Santos, Cormier, Del Rosario it just gets much tougher much quicker. I know a lot of this is part of the deal when you're on the wages he's on, but objectively it's tough.

Min Soo Kim as a first fight is a gimme, sure.

Frank Mir as a second fight is ridiculous. Not many people get matched with a former UFC champion in their second fight, but sure he lost.

Heath Herring as a third fight is tough. The guy was coming off a win over Kongo at the time and was a top 20 fighter.

Randy Couture as a fourth fight is a tough call for anyone. Sure he was past his best, but he still went the distance with Nogueira. Sure, Brock was bigger but so what? Sylvia was bigger.

Then Mir as a fifth fight, an undefeated Carwin as a sixth fight and an undefeated Cain as a seventh fight, now he's got Overeem as an eighth fight. Life doesn't get much tougher. Even Otsuka would wince at that run.
Seen other fighters have far tougher runs than that. Anyway that aside any wins Brock had was always going to flatter him. Physically he's a freak so he would always be a threat in a sport like MMA.
The UFC WANTED to get him a title shot. They knew how marketable he was. A fighter with a record of 2-1 or whatever it was is in no place whatsoever to be in line for a title shot. Thus you have to call a spade a spade. The UFC gave him an opportunity on a plate and Brock rode the crest of wave credit to him. But the reality was his opponents were certainly the weaker name opponents in the heavyweight division. But as you rightly say he's been on a tough run lately and will be. Those are the pressures that come with winning a title.
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Old 12-21-2011, 03:44 PM   #148
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I would agree that I've seen fighters have tougher run than that, but not at the start of their careers, other than Yuji Nagata and maybe Pawel Nastula.
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Old 12-21-2011, 05:10 PM   #149
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Default Re: Why do UFC champions have journeyman records?

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I would agree that I've seen fighters have tougher run than that, but not at the start of their careers, other than Yuji Nagata and maybe Pawel Nastula.
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Try Nishijima

I remember when he held the NABO belt
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Old 12-21-2011, 05:22 PM   #150
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Yeah, he had a tough run. I remember him trying to fight Hunt and willing him to KO him somehow in the end.
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