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Old 12-17-2011, 04:53 AM   #61
GlassJawAnalyst
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Default Re: Why do UFC champions have journeyman records?

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Originally Posted by Zmora View Post
Yes but he started when he was young about 16 years ago. Nobody wanted him to jump that much from fight to fight and fight champ there.
GSP was done with his division along time ago, he could have put on the muscle and competed at the next weight. What is he waiting for? there is no one in his division that can compete with him, or are they just milking his worth and denying the fans some interesting matches.
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Old 12-17-2011, 04:59 AM   #62
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Default Re: Why do UFC champions have journeyman records?

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GSP was done with his division along time ago, he could have put on the muscle and competed at the next weight. What is he waiting for? there is no one in his division that can compete with him, or are they just milking his worth and denying the fans some interesting matches.
You don't know much bout mma, don't you? GSP tired to put muscles before Shields fight and he looked like sh*t there. His style is based on good wrestling where you need to be at least of similiar weight and strength to your opponent and he would be one of the smallest guys at MW. What's the point for himto move up? To please "fans" who want to see him loose against some gatekeepers? Mind that most of the MW's cut at least 20-30 pounds and GSP is like 195 at best.
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Old 12-17-2011, 05:01 AM   #63
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Default Re: Why do UFC champions have journeyman records?

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Seems to me that the majority of UFC champions have 60% win ratios, which leaves the journeymen with 0% win ratios in some cases. Why is this?
Two reasons.

1.There are many more ways to lose a fight in MMA than there is in boxing. In boxing, if you can box like Pernell Whitaker, you beat every opponent while you're in your prime. In MMA, if you can kickbox like Ernesto Hoost, you can still get caught in a submission or get "lay n prayed" by a wrestler.

2.In MMA much more than in boxing, the top fighters are forced to fight the top fighters on a regular basis. There is no picking and choosing of opponents, there is basically a round-robin of always fighting the best in your division. When this happens, people lose fights.

Simple.
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Old 12-17-2011, 05:03 AM   #64
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Default Re: Why do UFC champions have journeyman records?

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You don't know much bout mma, don't you? GSP tired to put muscles before Shields fight and he looked like sh*t there. His style is based on good wrestling where you need to be at least of similiar weight and strength to your opponent and he would be one of the smallest guys at MW. What's the point for himto move up? To please "fans" who want to see him loose against some gatekeepers? Mind that most of the MW's cut at least 20-30 pounds and GSP is like 195 at best.
Sounds like excuses to me. GSP is scared, Dana is scared, they just stick to his comfort zone.
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Old 12-17-2011, 05:06 AM   #65
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Default Re: Why do UFC champions have journeyman records?

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Sounds like excuses to me. GSP is scared, Dana is scared, they just stick to his comfort zone.
Perfect! When you lack arguments say something stupid with confidence
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Old 12-17-2011, 05:09 AM   #66
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Default Re: Why do UFC champions have journeyman records?

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Pacquiao started at 107, now competes at 147. Boxers move up in weight all the time. Dana fears that his golden boy will become mediocre if he moves up and competes with the best.
Actually White was pushing for this to occur, when GSP was cleaning out the welterweight division, it is GSP who has reservations stating that he was reluctant to make the move to 185 so quickly, his trainer said if they did fight GSP would probably only weigh in at 190 for the fight because he's already maxed out his size to keep his speed and reflexes. Pac did this gradually, similar to Mayweather, in a span of about 15 years, not over one year or even 2. GSP may not be physically big enough to compete at 185 since thats near where he walks around at, since the average weight cut for a fighter in the MMA is anywhere between 25 up to 50 lbs. It's a different situation, due to time, and making the most of the natural maturing process and lean mass accumulating.
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Old 12-17-2011, 05:24 AM   #67
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Default Re: Why do UFC champions have journeyman records?

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Big boxing fan here but I second bobotnaman. You get taken to the ground by Frank Mir, better start shitting your pants - that's not just rolling around, he's actively & intelligently probing for weak points to choke or submit you. If you don't think there's effective striking in UFC/MMA, might I suggest watching some fights of Anderson Silva or the newest kid on the block, Jon Jones.

If you still prefer a boxing-style style striker, some Frankie Edgar, Junior Dos Santos or Masato should whet your appetite.

I understand your distaste though, just steer clear of watching anyone with wrestling as their main skill (I don't mind it but the lay & pray is easily the most frustrating aspect for any new casual fans)

Have to disagree. Some of them may look sloppy as hell but MMA striking will never look as crisp as boxing because there is always the risk of being taken down to the ground so they have adapted - there is a great article floating around the Internets somewhere on how the shuffling Golem-like boxing of Nick Diaz is actually a return the early days of boxing prize fights.

Meh, this is in the wrong sub-forum anyway.
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Old 12-17-2011, 06:30 AM   #68
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Default Re: Why do UFC champions have journeyman records?

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Remember that the differences between weight classes in MMA are bigger than in boxing.

Most of the matches you mentioned are just irrational because the smaller fighter would have to gain to match weight for that bout and no one knows how that would affect their style.

Everybody agreed here that guys like Mormeck or Adamek are to small for K2 bros. But you want Jones vs Silva or vs Dos Santos?

Pacquiao is too small for Martinez but Edgar is ok for GSP?


How about Donaire vs Mayweather, Dawson vs Povetkin, etc?

Now you see what you did there?


I want Pac to fight Martinez, at Middleweight, Napoles fought Monzon one of the greatest Middleweights, Duran fought Hagler another ATG, why can't Floyd or Pac fight Martinez? Martinez is far from ATG at that weight.

Armstrong and Leonard also fought at 160.

Why not Jones vs Silva? Haye, Holyfield and many others did it in Boxing.

You know very well Jones vs Silva would be great.

same with Edgar vs Aldo and every match i mentioned, the smaller fighter may not always win, but hey, they took the fight, and that shows how great a fighter is, Look at Marquez moved up to welter lost 1 won 1.

Other UFC fighters have done it, every fight I mentioned would be great, and should be made. Catchweight or something, give the fans what they want.
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Old 12-17-2011, 06:35 AM   #69
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Default Re: Why do UFC champions have journeyman records?

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Silly comparison, Pac started his career at 107.
Don't matter, he's now a strong welter Like Napoles, Armstrong, and Duran were in their time, and they moved up to fight the #1 at 160, is not as if Pac can make 107 at the moment, and Martinez is no ATG at that weight.

Mayweather vs Donaire at 130 would have been interesting.

Neither Boxing or MMA are making the best fights possible.
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Old 12-17-2011, 06:42 AM   #70
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Default Re: Why do UFC champions have journeyman records?

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Old 12-17-2011, 06:47 AM   #71
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Default Re: Why do UFC champions have journeyman records?

because its an overrated wanna be boxing type of sport...?
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Old 12-17-2011, 07:05 AM   #72
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Default Re: Why do UFC champions have journeyman records?

A lot of those guys fought in an era when the UFC was Rocky Paper Scissors of determining how a fight played out. Kickboxing beat BJJ which Beat wrestling which beat Kickboxing, that sort of thing. Now like boxing the guys are learning 2 or 3 martial arts so they don't look lost when they fight a guy who counters their main style.
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Old 12-17-2011, 07:13 AM   #73
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Default Re: Why do UFC champions have journeyman records?

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Because the top guys are forced to fight each other fight after fight, since they fight in organizations.

If MMA was handled like boxing. You'd see a lot better ratio records.
/thread
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Old 12-17-2011, 07:44 AM   #74
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Default Re: Why do UFC champions have journeyman records?

I am dumber for having read this thread.
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Old 12-17-2011, 10:01 AM   #75
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Default Re: Why do UFC champions have journeyman records?

This is why I dont post in the General
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