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Old 07-05-2007, 05:59 PM   #76
Marnoff
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Default Re: In the last 30 years- p4p whose better than Sugar Ray Leonard

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Originally Posted by Shake
Floyd can't do anything atthis point to ever surpass Leonard. For one thing, we always have to compare currents to the best of all-time. Do we compare Floyd to Wilfredo Benitez? No. We compare him to Sugar Ray Leonard, a man who fought in the best welter/middleweight era and has attained legendary status.

The comparison is unfair. Floyd was not born in such an era, and in fifty years when people look back, Floyd will be remembered as an awesome talent that won titles in multiple weight divisions, but Leonard will still be legendary for the drama, rivalries, and several of the best fights of all-time in that specific era.

Adding to that, no, I don't think Floyd stacks up to Leonard, and I firmly believe Leonard would have won head-to-head. Floyd has the tools to beat him, but mentally, Ray is very much tougher.
See, that's a trash response. How can you say... "Floyd can't do anything at this point to ever surpass Leonard." This is just crazy. You are putting Leonard on a pedastal that can't be reached, and that's wrong.

Also, what makes Ray tougher than Floyd? When did Floyd buckle under the pressure? I don't see where you get that statement. Yes, Ray is tough mentally, but nothing tells me that he is tougher.
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Old 07-05-2007, 06:07 PM   #77
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Default Re: In the last 30 years- p4p whose better than Sugar Ray Leonard

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Originally Posted by Sweet Pea
Nope.

Who was the greatest 140 pounder in history that he arguably beat? His fights with Hagler and Hearns are marred with controversy, and he got beat in the rematch with Hearns. He lost to natural LW Duran the first time and beat him again under controversial circumstances the second time and when he was old the 3rd time. Lot of excuses from me, all good wins, but not as good as they seem on paper.

They all had MUCH MUCH MUCH deeper resumes though and beat greats in their own right.

Explained above, these fights were in some questionable circumstances, but they are good wins, but once again, not as good as they seem on paper. Also remains the fact that the rest of his resume literally has nothing.

He didn't have a good enough resume(even decent) aside from these fightys, which again were not as good as you make them out to be given the circumstances in them all. He was a great fighter, and arguably a top 10, but not the greatest at all.
I agree.
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Old 07-05-2007, 06:16 PM   #78
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Default Re: In the last 30 years- p4p whose better than Sugar Ray Leonard

roy jones jr is the best in the past 30
duran
mayweather jr
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Old 07-05-2007, 07:49 PM   #79
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Default Re: In the last 30 years- p4p whose better than Sugar Ray Leonard

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Originally Posted by platnumpapi
roy jones jr is the best in the past 30
duran
mayweather jr
rjjr or mayweather hasnt had the level of opposition that srl did
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Old 07-05-2007, 08:07 PM   #80
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Default Re: In the last 30 years- p4p whose better than Sugar Ray Leonard

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Originally Posted by Sweet Pea
Mayweather? RJJ is the most talented in the past 30, but not really the greatest.
I agree here
I would rock with RJ, be4 his KO losses, that man did his thing in a boxing ring. And did it like no other bar none
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Old 07-06-2007, 03:49 AM   #81
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Default Re: In the last 30 years- p4p whose better than Sugar Ray Leonard

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Originally Posted by Fab2333
I agree here
I would rock with RJ, be4 his KO losses, that man did his thing in a boxing ring. And did it like no other bar none

Like Ali, and Holmes (and some others) I would not count Roy's career much after Ruiz.

He went on too long. Some boxers get addicted to the whole hoopla.


I don't count Holmes losses after his middleaged comeback against him in his legacy. I count what he did up to Spinks 2 , which, IMO he won.

(He lost the first time though and he probably lost to Witherspoon)

Likewise, I don't count Ali's last two fights. He was a goner by then, old and disabled.

Stil, I rank Ali 1 and Holmes 5 or 6 alltime.


With Roy, he reached his pinnacle with his capture of a piece of the heavywt title over Evander-conqueror, John Ruiz.

Put that together with all that he achieved previously, and I think his accomplishments stack up against anyone in the past 30 years.

In terms of boxing ability, he ranks as the best of that period.
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Old 07-06-2007, 04:21 AM   #82
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Default Re: In the last 30 years- p4p whose better than Sugar Ray Leonard

Top 30 who turned pro since 1976:

30 James Toney
29 Ronald 'Winky' Wright
28 Orlando Canizales
27 Mike Tyson
26 Sot Chitalada
25 Jeff Chandler
24 Lennox Lewis
23 Aaron Pryor
22 Myung Woo Yuh
21 Jung Koo Chang
20 Kostya Tszyu
19 Brian Mitchell
18 Jeff Fenech
17 Salvador Sanchez
16 Marco Antonio Barrera
15 Mike McCallum
14 Felix Trinidad
13 Evander Holyfield
12 Khoasio Galaxy
11 Michael Spinks
10 Azumah Nelson
9 Floyd Mayweather Jr
8 Bernard Hopkins
7 Ricardo Lopez
6 Roy Jones
5 Thomas Hearns
4 Pernell Whitaker
3 Oscar de la Hoya
2 Julio Cesar Chavez
1 Ray Leonard
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Old 07-06-2007, 04:27 AM   #83
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Default Re: In the last 30 years- p4p whose better than Sugar Ray Leonard

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Originally Posted by Sweet Pea
I don't know what's up with a few of those choices at all, pretty ridiculous. But also De La Hoya that high? Chavez above Whitaker? Don't get it.
de la Hoya was the finest fighter of the 90s

Chavez's career was better than Whitaker's, there were far more career defining fights for Chavez, and overall better quality.

Just take there own fight, Chavez was fighting near prime Whitaker, but Whitaker was fighting a Chavez six years and 10+lbs past his best.
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Old 07-06-2007, 04:31 AM   #84
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Default Re: In the last 30 years- p4p whose better than Sugar Ray Leonard

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Originally Posted by Sweet Pea
He was NOT 6 years past his best, are you saying he was past his best in the Taylor fight as well?
Yes, he was three years past his best in 1990. Chavez was never quite the same fighter after Rosario.
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Old 07-06-2007, 04:39 AM   #85
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Default Re: In the last 30 years- p4p whose better than Sugar Ray Leonard

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Originally Posted by Sweet Pea
SO his best was only for one fight? He was pre-prime before that and only for that fight was he prime? After that if he lost it was because he was "past his prime"? Get real. He was not at his peak for the Whitaker fight, but he wasn't far past his prime at all. That was the first fight he was really made to look bad in.
He peaked against Rosario, and even the 1988 Aguilar and Ramirez fights showed a dip in performance, and that hurt him even more when he had the Mayweather rematch in 89, where he had to battle, yet three years earlier he was blowing Mayweather out in a couple of rounds.

Mayweather had improved in them three years, but even the 85/86 version decked Whitaker
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Old 07-06-2007, 04:57 AM   #86
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Default Re: In the last 30 years- p4p whose better than Sugar Ray Leonard

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Originally Posted by brooklyn1550
Peter Manfredo Jr (who is better than Duran)
No you did not mean this?!
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Old 07-06-2007, 05:02 AM   #87
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Default Re: In the last 30 years- p4p whose better than Sugar Ray Leonard

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Originally Posted by Sweet Pea
A dip in performance? Because the Rosario fight was his best doesn't mean he was past his prime after that fight. You make it seem like his prime lasted that fight and that fight only. He had difficult performances as they all do, but he also had great ones like against Haugen and Camacho. He was not past his prime really when he fought Whitaker(not a lot anyway), he was just past his peak, a little more than Whitaker was, who was also past his peak.
Chavez was a phenom no doubt, but that does not hide the fact he was six years past his peak (prime) performance, and yet was still the best fighter in the world!

Great fighters can substain excellent performances when way past their best, look at the Motor City Cobra hand Hill a boxing lessom in 1991, but no one for one second, mistook that Hearns for the 83/84 vintage, indeed Hearns demolition of Maynard put a chill though me, and that was what 94?

Chavez was the same, yes he seemed to roll back the years against Haugan or Camacho, but there was enough evidence (Taylor, Fuentas, Ramirez) to know Chavez had peaked and was on the way down.
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Old 07-06-2007, 05:04 AM   #88
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Default Re: In the last 30 years- p4p whose better than Sugar Ray Leonard

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Originally Posted by Sweet Pea
He was joking with that whole post to show how stupid that guy that said Calzaghe was.
You never know on this forum, Sweet.
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Old 07-06-2007, 05:27 AM   #89
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Default Re: In the last 30 years- p4p whose better than Sugar Ray Leonard

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Originally Posted by TBooze
Chavez was a phenom no doubt, but that does not hide the fact he was six years past his peak (prime) performance, and yet was still the best fighter in the world!

Great fighters can substain excellent performances when way past their best, look at the Motor City Cobra hand Hill a boxing lessom in 1991, but no one for one second, mistook that Hearns for the 83/84 vintage, indeed Hearns demolition of Maynard put a chill though me, and that was what 94?

Chavez was the same, yes he seemed to roll back the years against Haugan or Camacho, but there was enough evidence (Taylor, Fuentas, Ramirez) to know Chavez had peaked and was on the way down.
You're right, great fighters can sustain their excellence when past their best. Take Whitaker for example, he was four years past his peak performance against Jose Luis Ramirez, and still put a whooping on Julio Cesar Chavez
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Old 07-06-2007, 06:05 AM   #90
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Default Re: In the last 30 years- p4p whose better than Sugar Ray Leonard

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Originally Posted by sweet_scientist
You're right, great fighters can sustain their excellence when past their best. Take Whitaker for example, he was four years past his peak performance against Jose Luis Ramirez, and still put a whooping on Julio Cesar Chavez
And Chavez was so good, he took a whooping off a great fighter like Whitaker and still get a draw; hell even fooled us into believing he was unbeaten when he lost his 12th bout, the man had stroke!
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