lesnar vs overeem!! who u got?

[Will Munny]

Really? He's beaten much better fighters than OVereem with much less experience. Basically winning the strap with only his wrestling credentials. What has OVereem won? Who has he beaten that's top 10? Who has he lost too? When has he ever shown the ability to stuff a takedown from a top level wrestler?

And I'll be sure to bump this too when Brock takes him down immediately and pounds him out.

How about an AV bet?

[greathamza]

Originally Posted by Will Munny

Really? He's beaten much better fighters than OVereem with much less experience. Basically winning the strap with only his wrestling credentials. What has OVereem won? Who has he beaten that's top 10? Who has he lost too? When has he ever shown the ability to stuff a takedown from a top level wrestler?

And I'll be sure to bump this too when Brock takes him down immediately and pounds him out.

How about an AV bet?

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[Matty lll]

Originally Posted by scurlaruntings

Wow what a heap of fail? So far Brock's NCAA credentials havent translated into MMA whatsoever despite his fans touting them.
Overeem has credentials -as a legit striker- in one of the best tournys in submission grappling and you're willing to dismiss that in favour or Brocks non-existent grappling? Be prepared to eat some serious crow come fight night. Il be sure to bump this post when Overeem wins by TKO well inside of a round.

I agree with you Scurla. These Brock go about shouting about Brocks NCAA record and good wrestling but are quick to point out that it's not a kickboxing match when Overeems K-1 credentials are brought up. It's not a wrestling match either.

[scurlaruntings]

Brocks wrestling creds mean nothing in MMA. He's so far removed from competitive wrestling that what he learnt over a decade ago is completely irrelavent. In addition he has not operated at a similar level to Mark Coleman or even Mark Kerr who competed in submission grappling tournys. Fuck even Kurt Angle has a better wrestling pedigree than Brock. Has anyone seem his fabled wrestling yet? Is one arm triangle after him getting his ass beat for a round supposed to be an indication of his grappling skills much less for his BJJ?
The reality is Overeems grappling creds ARE BETTER than Brocks and his proved that professionally in the ADCC Euro trials as well as in MMA. Likewise at the top level in striking (K-1) he is also proven. Those that dismiss Overeems VAST experience in relation to Brock seriously cant know much about MMA.
Brock is a physical specimen no question about that. But the last i checked in this game you need alot more than size, a menacing stare and big muscles to win fights.

[Matty lll]

Originally Posted by scurlaruntings

Brocks wrestling creds mean nothing in MMA. He's so far removed from competitive wrestling that what he learnt over a decade ago is completely irrelavent. In addition he has not operated at a similar level to Mark Coleman or even Mark Kerr who competed in submission grappling tournys. Fuck even Kurt Angle has a better wrestling pedigree than Brock. Has anyone seem his fabled wrestling yet? Is one arm triangle after him getting his ass beat for a round supposed to be an indication of his grappling skills much less for his BJJ?
The reality is Overeems grappling creds ARE BETTER than Brocks and his proved that professionally in the ADCC Euro trials as well as in MMA. Likewise at the top level in striking (K-1) he is also proven. Those that dismiss Overeems VAST experience in relation to Brock seriously cant know much about MMA.
Brock is a physical specimen no question about that. But the last i checked in this game you need alot more than size, a menacing stare and big muscles to win fights.

I somewhat agree but it is clear that Brock is still a fairly good wrestler. Good enough to take Velasquez down anyway and if he can take down Velasquez he can take down Overeem. A lot of his takedowns are just pure out muscling his opponent to the ground though so we shall see how he does against someone who is as strong if not stronger.

[Will Munny]

None of this stupidity is worth a well thought out response. Plain and simple, nut up and offer a bet.

[The Spider]

Originally Posted by kokoko

Yup. Winner of Brock versus Overeem gets a title shot.

Really hope Junior ices whoever gets through too.

[scurlaruntings]

Originally Posted by Matty lll

I somewhat agree but it is clear that Brock is still a fairly good wrestler. Good enough to take Velasquez down anyway and if he can take down Velasquez he can take down Overeem. A lot of his takedowns are just pure outmuscling his oppoonent to the grund though so we shall see how he does against someone who is as strong if not stronger.

Problem is its not. Look at Brocks takedown technique against Cain. Granted he eventually muscled him to the mat but his technique was borderline horrendous. There was no wrestling involved there. Just brute strength as he tried in vain to get Cain to the mat.
For my money Overeem is the stronger of the two. His functional strength in this sport is greater than Brocks. Look at the way he ragdolled Rogers who's of similar stats to Brock. Overeem trains with some of the best power lifters in the world and is certainly an exceptional athelete. Along with his vastly superior experience Brock has 3 hopes. Slim, none and Bob.

[Matty lll]

Originally Posted by scurlaruntings

Problem is its not. Look at Brocks takedown technique against Cain. Granted he eventually muscled him to the mat but his technique was borderline horrendous. There was no wrestling involved there. Just brute strength as he tried in vain to get Cain to the mat.
For my money Overeem is the stronger of the two. His functional strength in this sport is greater than Brocks. Look at the way he ragdolled Rogers who's of similar stats to Brock. Overeem trains with some of the best power lifters in the world and is certainly an exceptional athelete. Along with his vastly superior experience Brock has 3 hopes. Slim, none and Bob.

Perhaps I worded it poorly. It is clear that Brock is able to get people on the ground. Is that better

I agree with some of what you say and I already mentioned in my post that Brock just out muscles his opponents.

[Kid Dynamite]

It's a fight to look foward to. Overeem his preparation wasn't that good with him splitting from Golden Glory and taking the case to court, his mom having cancer, the skipped drugs test, ... so that's not a good preparation to keep your focus.

Anyways regarding hsi striking, I don't think he's that skilled. At Golden Glory he had great sparring partners that elevated his kickboxing level, but I'm not sure where you ould rank him as a kickboxer. He has great power and knees and in K-1 he could use his big arms and gloves to secure a good defense, but in mma that will be different.

Basically he just took Werdum his shots and was not worried about them. I didn't see much striking skills from him there. In the last K-1 GP he was rocked by Spong and fought his stable mate Saki who was unable to fight, but Overeem got dropped. In the final he faced a 40 year old and totally burnt out Peter Aerts who he already beat previously and who fits him perfectly stylewise ( he can just overpower Aerts).

So I don't his K-1 title means a lot. It would have been different if he would have fought Ghita in the semis and Semmy in the final ... but he did not and basically got a "gift ".

[scurlaruntings]

Originally Posted by Matty lll

Perhaps I worded it poorly. It is clear that Brock is able to get people on the ground. Is that better

I agree with what you say and I already mentioned in my post that BRock just out muscles his opponents.

Against a savvy vet like Overeem that's just not going to be enough. Everyone of those takedowns is going to get stuffed like childs play. Remember when Fedor fought Coleman the second time and Coleman attempted numerous TD's only for everyone of them to be stuffed? It will be exactly the same. And whats worse is Brock doesn't have the striking skills to do anything to Overeem. Dont be surprised if one of Brocks crude takedowns is met with an Uberknee. The guys on a hiding to nothing. This isn't a 50/50 fight in the slightest.

[scurlaruntings]

Originally Posted by Kid Dynamite

It's a fight to look foward to. Overeem his preparation wasn't that good with him splitting from Golden Glory and taking the case to court, his mom having cancer, the skipped drugs test, ... so that's not a good preparation to keep your focus.

Anyways regarding hsi striking, I don't think he's that skilled. At Golden Glory he had great sparring partners that elevated his kickboxing level, but I'm not sure where you ould rank him as a kickboxer. He has great power and knees and in K-1 he could use his big arms and gloves to secure a good defense, but in mma that will be different.

Basically he just took Werdum his shots and was not worried about them. I didn't see much striking skills from him there. In the last K-1 GP he was rocked by Spong and fought his stable mate Saki who was unable to fight, but Overeem got dropped. In the final he faced a 40 year old and totally burnt out Peter Aerts who he already beat previously and who fits him perfectly stylewise ( he can just overpower Aerts).

So I don't his K-1 title means a lot. It would have been different if he would have fought Ghita in the semis and Semmy in the final ... but he did not and basically got a "gift ".

None of that makes any sense. Effectively your implying that the striking in the K-1 is inferior to MMA? And then you're using comparisons with the best strikers in the world -Spong, Saki etc- as a legit argument for Overeem getting hurt by guys in MMA who have lesser striking?!!?!?

Overeem isn't going to face a Daniel Ghita or Aerts. There is NO ONE currently in the heavyweight division of the calibre or pedigree of Overeems striking. That's not up for debate. Whilst the GP win does flatter him somewhat in that he remained injury free for the tournament the fact is he won against the BEST strikers in the world. The UFC nor MMA has anyone close to that much less for in the heavy division.

The fact is Brock's striking is INFINITELY worse. On that basis alone the odds are stacked all in Overeems favour.

[AJAX]

Originally Posted by scurlaruntings

Against a savvy vet like Overeem that's just not going to be enough. Everyone of those takedowns is going to get stuffed like childs play. Remember when Fedor fought Coleman the second time and Coleman attempted numerous TD's only for everyone of them to be stuffed? It will be exactly the same. And whats worse is Brock doesn't have the striking skills to do anything to Overeem. Dont be surprised if one of Brocks crude takedowns is met with an Uberknee. The guys on a hiding to nothing. This isn't a 50/50 fight in the slightest.

ok, if it's a sure thing then let's have a bet, Overeem wins i log off for two months, brock wins you log off for a month I'll give you odds because it's worth the risk of not having to listen to your trolling.

I'll await your response.

[scurlaruntings]

Originally Posted by AJAX

ok, if it's a sure thing then let's have a bet, Overeem wins i log off for two months, brock wins you log off for a month I'll give you odds because it's worth the risk of not having to listen to your trolling.

I'll await your response.

Iv got a better idea how about you just log off for ever and dont return?
Sounds like a great idea to me. You never have anything interesting to say or to offer to any discussion other than your 'objective' UFC cheer leading.
Failing that you could counter my post. But oh wait you cant.. Plus you're the gimp that said Brock Cain was a 50/50 fight. And well all know how that went dont we. Surprised you didnt slit your wrists when you saw your boy getting owned.

[AJAX]

Originally Posted by scurlaruntings

Iv got a better idea how about you just log off for ever and dont return?
Sounds like a great idea to me. You never have anything interesting to say or to offer to any discussion other than your 'objective' UFC cheer leading.
Failing that you could counter my post. But oh wait you cant.. Plus you're the gimp that said Brock Cain was a 50/50 fight. And well all know how that went dont we. Surprised you didnt slit your wrists when you saw your boy getting owned.

Good so were on, Objective??? when i see a headline with your name under it, it's already written in stone what it's about, it will be anything anti ufc just as sure as the sun will rise tomorrow.