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View Poll Results: How do you rate today's HW division fighters H2H with past Heavies?
As good or better than it ever was 31 15.98%
Good, but not the best 28 14.43%
About average 37 19.07%
Poor 61 31.44%
Abysmal 37 19.07%
Voters: 194. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 02-23-2012, 11:07 AM   #166
Bubby
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Default Re: Has the Heavyweight Division ever been this Good?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubby View Post
Let's start proving how good or bad todays division is...

Ring magazine's top ten of 2012:

Champion: Wladimir Klitschko, 35yo, 6'6", 243lbs, 81"reach, 56-3-0 record,
RING/IBF/WBO/IBO/WBA champion,

#1 Vitali Klitschko, 40yo, 6'7", 250lbs, 82"reach, 44-2-0 record,
WBC champion, never knocked down, never behind in a fight.

#2 Alexand Povetkin, 32yo, 6'2", 225lbs, 76"reach, 23-0-0 record,
has beaten two other fighters in the top ten.

#3 Tomasz Adamek, 35yo, 6'2" 216lbs, 76"reach, 44-2-0 record,
has beaten no other top ten fighters, former LHW/Cruiser champion.

#4 Eddie Chambers, 30yo, 6'1", 210lbs, 76"reach, 36-2-0 record,
only lost to two other top ten fighters.

#5 Alexander Dimitrernko, 29yo, 6'7", 255lbs, 83"reach, 32-1-0 record,
only lost to #4.

#6 Robert Helenius, 28yo, 6'6", 240lbs, 80"reach, 17-0-0 record,

#7 Denis Boytsov, 26yo, 6'1", 215lbs, 30-0-0 record,

#8 Rusland Chagaev, 33yo, 6'0", 225lbs, 74"reach, 28-2-1 record,
former champion, only lost to other top ten fighters.

#9 Chris Arreola, 30yo, 6'4", 245lbs, 77"reach, 35-2-0 record,
only lost to other top ten fighters.

#10 Kubrat Pulev, 30yo, 6'5", 250lbs, 15-0-0.

Now we can compare this top ten with past top ten's and see how good it actually is..
In my earlier post I compared todays division against 1960.
From 60 to 63 the division saw little change, so I skiped 61 and 62.
Now we can compare 2012 with 1963 and see if it's weaker.

Ring magazine's top ten of 1963.

Champion: Sonny Liston, mob backed, see my earlier post.

#1 Cassius Clay, 21yo, 6'3", 210lbs, 80"reach, 18-0-0 record.
Clay is the first fighter of the modern era who could compete in any division in history. He had a combination of size and speed that give him a good chance vs any fighter. But! the 63 Clay didnt have the exprience at this point to be a force in todays division.

#2 Doug Jones, 26yo, 6'0", 187lbs, 22-4-1 record.
Many believed (as I do) Jones beat Clay in 63, lost to every top fighter he fought, would be too small for the 2012 division today.

#3 Ernie Terrell, 24yo, 6'6" 200lbs, 82"reach, 32-4-0 record.
Terrell had lost to poor compeitition and would be very light for today,
he could still do good, but its not likely.

#4 Cleveland Williams, 30yo, 6'3", 214lbs, 80"reach, 42-5-1 record.
Williams was an old war horse by 63. Lost to every top fighter he fought in the 60s.

#5 Zora Folley. See my earlier post.

#6 Eddie machen. See my earlier post.

#7 Floyd Patterson, See my earlier post.

#8 Karl Mildenberger, 26yo, 6'2", 190lbs, 40-2-1 record.
All-around fighter, just too small for todays heavyweights.

#9 George Ghuvalo, 26yo, 6'0" 205lbs, 28-6-2 record.
Tough, but not for any of the top fighters of the 60s.

#10 Brian London, 29yo, 6'0" 195lbs, 30-10-0 record.
London was a club fighter only...

So either H2H or record, todays division is ahead of 1963..
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Old 02-23-2012, 11:17 AM   #167
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Default Re: Has the Heavyweight Division ever been this Good?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubby View Post
In my earlier post I compared todays division against 1960.
From 60 to 63 the division saw little change, so I skiped 61 and 62.
Now we can compare 2012 with 1963 and see if it's weaker.

Ring magazine's top ten of 1963.

Champion: Sonny Liston, mob backed, see my earlier post.

#1 Cassius Clay, 21yo, 6'3", 210lbs, 80"reach, 18-0-0 record.
Clay is the first fighter of the modern era who could compete in any division in history. He had a combination of size and speed that give him a good chance vs any fighter. But! the 63 Clay didnt have the exprience at this point to be a force in todays division.

#2 Doug Jones, 26yo, 6'0", 187lbs, 22-4-1 record.
Many believed (as I do) Jones beat Clay in 63, lost to every top fighter he fought, would be too small for the 2012 division today.

#3 Ernie Terrell, 24yo, 6'6" 200lbs, 82"reach, 32-4-0 record.
Terrell had lost to poor compeitition and would be very light for today,
he could still do good, but its not likely.

#4 Cleveland Williams, 30yo, 6'3", 214lbs, 80"reach, 42-5-1 record.
Williams was an old war horse by 63. Lost to every top fighter he fought in the 60s.

#5 Zora Folley. See my earlier post.

#6 Eddie machen. See my earlier post.

#7 Floyd Patterson, See my earlier post.

#8 Karl Mildenberger, 26yo, 6'2", 190lbs, 40-2-1 record.
All-around fighter, just too small for todays heavyweights.

#9 George Ghuvalo, 26yo, 6'0" 205lbs, 28-6-2 record.
Tough, but not for any of the top fighters of the 60s.

#10 Brian London, 29yo, 6'0" 195lbs, 30-10-0 record.
London was a club fighter only...

So either H2H or record, todays division is ahead of 1963..
Look at the boxing expert at work! Typing out all those essays with boxrec and wikipedia opened in other windows!


As I said, compare today's division to the 70s and 90's.

I think veryone realizes today's division is not the weakest ever. People just say that to troll you


Rather than comparing today's HW to less than stellar era's, compare it to the best, and prove that it is the best, not that its just not the worst
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Old 02-23-2012, 11:28 AM   #168
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Default Re: Has the Heavyweight Division ever been this Good?

I don't mind reading these run downs of past eras from before my time. They're interesting to me.
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Old 02-23-2012, 01:18 PM   #169
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Default Re: Has the Heavyweight Division ever been this Good?

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Originally Posted by Uncle Roger View Post


As I said, compare today's division to the 70s and 90's.

I think veryone realizes today's division is not the weakest ever. People just say that to troll you


Rather than comparing today's HW to less than stellar era's, compare it to the best, and prove that it is the best, not that its just not the worst
Good Uncle Roger there is hope for you man. I mean to admit the ****ting this ERA are part of trolling against most annoying Klit huggers Sure I have always know it, but believe me buddy there are plenty of guys here at ESB who thinks so. There really are ridiculous amount of bias against these guys..

This ERA lacks rivalries between two or more huge names to fight against each other... that is what we are missing..
And the unique situtiation where two, very good Boxers at the top of the division as accomplishment Champions are brothers and can not fight between each other.. Sure Wlad is basically the Champ and Vitali only belt holder but that is what is problem because Champ wont fight second best man in the division...

And the thing alot of these contenders today are getting their title shots too easily while not really earning them.. like if these fukin prospects/contenders start to fight against each other they would make buzz around the division much more and those eliminators would make much more Credible contenders.. Promoters too greedy with their investments as their fighters and won risk putting them fighting who will the best of them to challenge the champions. Like in the old days. You know.

Talent is always there.
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Old 02-23-2012, 04:32 PM   #170
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Default Re: Has the Heavyweight Division ever been this Good?

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Originally Posted by MaliBua View Post
Good Uncle Roger there is hope for you man. I mean to admit the ****ting this ERA are part of trolling against most annoying Klit huggers Sure I have always know it, but believe me buddy there are plenty of guys here at ESB who thinks so. There really are ridiculous amount of bias against these guys..

This ERA lacks rivalries between two or more huge names to fight against each other... that is what we are missing..
And the unique situtiation where two, very good Boxers at the top of the division as accomplishment Champions are brothers and can not fight between each other.. Sure Wlad is basically the Champ and Vitali only belt holder but that is what is problem because Champ wont fight second best man in the division...

And the thing alot of these contenders today are getting their title shots too easily while not really earning them.. like if these fukin prospects/contenders start to fight against each other they would make buzz around the division much more and those eliminators would make much more Credible contenders.. Promoters too greedy with their investments as their fighters and won risk putting them fighting who will the best of them to challenge the champions. Like in the old days. You know.

Talent is always there.
I agree with what you say. While the division has many problems, its still pretty good IMO. Personally, I never miss a decent fight. I just wish there was more competition within the top 20-30. So its nice to see Povetkin fighting Huck and Pulev stepping up and fighting Dimitrenko.

And as for my trolling; I have nothing against the Klitschkos. In fact I'm a pretty big fan of Wladimir (not as fond of Vitali). I just talk **** because I hate to see all the re****ed ignorance that comes from some Klitschko extremists ("Vitali the GOAT" etc...). In the end, I think that a good couple of HW's from todays division would be very competitive in most eras of boxing.
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Old 02-23-2012, 04:55 PM   #171
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Default Re: Has the Heavyweight Division ever been this Good?

70's and 90's were strongest eras. I think the 90s were arguably the strongest and maybe why so many people around the world think this era is so weak.

It's Definetely not the best, and most probably not the worst. But it could be better.
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Old 02-23-2012, 05:15 PM   #172
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Default Re: Has the Heavyweight Division ever been this Good?

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Originally Posted by realtalk View Post
Then you have top quality guys like Povetkin and Haye. then there is many, many quality fighters such as Pulev, Price, Fury, Glazkov, Boystov, Adamek, Huck, Chisora, Szpilla, Gerber,etc,etc.
I wouldn't say they are quality fighters, but many match up similar skill sets. If they were matched regularly, promoters were prepared to take some losses with the wins - the division could be interesting... but that will never happen.

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Old 02-23-2012, 07:40 PM   #173
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Default Re: Has the Heavyweight Division ever been this Good?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Roger View Post
Look at the boxing expert at work! Typing out all those essays with boxrec and wikipedia opened in other windows!


As I said, compare today's division to the 70s and 90's.

I think veryone realizes today's division is not the weakest ever. People just say that to troll you


Rather than comparing today's HW to less than stellar era's, compare it to the best, and prove that it is the best, not that its just not the worst
I will get around to the 70's and 90's soon.
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Old 02-24-2012, 02:22 AM   #174
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Default Re: Has the Heavyweight Division ever been this Good?

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Originally Posted by Bubby View Post
I will get around to the 70's and 90's soon.
Something just dawned on me this last week. Chisora is basically the same fighter that Ike Ibeabuchi was. Very similar is so many ways, although Ike was probably just a bit better overall.

So many of these 70' and 90's revisionists have current examples of fighters that cannot touch this era's top guys that match up very well with their earstwhile hero's.
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Old 02-24-2012, 05:47 AM   #175
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Default Re: Has the Heavyweight Division ever been this Good?

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Something just dawned on me this last week. Chisora is basically the same fighter that Ike Ibeabuchi was. Very similar is so many ways, although Ike was probably just a bit better overall.

So many of these 70' and 90's revisionists have current examples of fighters that cannot touch this era's top guys that match up very well with their earstwhile hero's.
Well as you can see haters on here have already went from calling this the worst era ever to only wanting me to compare a snap shot of the top ten today with the very best from the very best of the past. But they cant have it both ways. Either it's the worst or its not...
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Old 02-24-2012, 10:46 AM   #176
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Default Re: Has the Heavyweight Division ever been this Good?

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Originally Posted by Bubby View Post
Well as you can see haters on here have already went from calling this the worst era ever to only wanting me to compare a snap shot of the top ten today with the very best from the very best of the past. But they cant have it both ways. Either it's the worst or its not...
I've never called this HW era the worst... , and btw Im still waiting for you to enlighten me about Eddie Mustapha Muhammad. You are yet to tell me about his best fights, his attributes and weaknesses. Aren't you a walking encyclopedia of boxing bubby?
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Old 02-24-2012, 12:46 PM   #177
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Default Re: Has the Heavyweight Division ever been this Good?

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Originally Posted by Bubby View Post
Let's start proving how good or bad todays division is...

Ring magazine's top ten of 2012:

Champion: Wladimir Klitschko, 35yo, 6'6", 243lbs, 81"reach, 56-3-0 record,
RING/IBF/WBO/IBO/WBA champion,

#1 Vitali Klitschko, 40yo, 6'7", 250lbs, 82"reach, 44-2-0 record,
WBC champion, never knocked down, never behind in a fight.

#2 Alexand Povetkin, 32yo, 6'2", 225lbs, 76"reach, 23-0-0 record,
has beaten two other fighters in the top ten.

#3 Tomasz Adamek, 35yo, 6'2" 216lbs, 76"reach, 44-2-0 record,
has beaten no other top ten fighters, former LHW/Cruiser champion.

#4 Eddie Chambers, 30yo, 6'1", 210lbs, 76"reach, 36-2-0 record,
only lost to two other top ten fighters.

#5 Alexander Dimitrernko, 29yo, 6'7", 255lbs, 83"reach, 32-1-0 record,
only lost to #4.

#6 Robert Helenius, 28yo, 6'6", 240lbs, 80"reach, 17-0-0 record,

#7 Denis Boytsov, 26yo, 6'1", 215lbs, 30-0-0 record,

#8 Rusland Chagaev, 33yo, 6'0", 225lbs, 74"reach, 28-2-1 record,
former champion, only lost to other top ten fighters.

#9 Chris Arreola, 30yo, 6'4", 245lbs, 77"reach, 35-2-0 record,
only lost to other top ten fighters.

#10 Kubrat Pulev, 30yo, 6'5", 250lbs, 15-0-0.

Now we can compare this top ten with past top ten's and see how good it actually is..
I guess I will just skip the 60's now and move on to the socalled "golden age" of heavyweights, the 1970's.

we'll start from the start, 1970.

The Ring magazine's top ten of 1970.
Champion: Joe Frazier, 26yo, 5'11" 205lbs, 73"reach, 25-0-0 record.
Frazier was said to be blind in one eye, probably couldnt pass the physical today.

#1 Muhammad Ali, 28yo, 6'3", 215lbs, 80"reach, 30-0-0 record.
Again, Ali could compete in any era.

#2 George Foreman, 22yo, 6'4", 220lbs, 81"reach, 25-0-0 record.
Like Ali Foreman could compete in any era.

#3 Oscar Bonavena, 30yo, 5'10" 205lbs, 73"reach, 40-7-1 record.
Bonavena lost to almost every top fighter he fought, 5'10" would be too short for todays division.

#4 Jerry Quarry, 25yo, 6'0", 194lbs, 72"reach, 47-5-4 record.
Quarry would be very, very small in todays division and was easy cut.

#5 Mac Foster, 25yo, 6'2" 220lbs, 23-1-0 record.
Foster probably could be a top ten fighter today, but not a champ.

#6 Henry Cooper, 37yo, 6'0", 189lbs, 40-13-1 record.
Copper reentered the top ten at 37 years old, clearly proving just how shallow the talent pool was in 1970.

#7 George Chuvalo, see my earlier post.

#8 Sonny Liston, 38yo,(maybe 42yo) 6'1" 220lbs,
Liston would be dead in just a few months, was ko'd a year earlier by Leotis Martin.

#9 Jose M Urtain, 38yo, 5'11", 35-2-0 record,
Urtain was really just a joke, was KO'd by old Henry Cooper.

#10 Jose L Garcia, 6'4", 189lbs, 17-2-1 record.
Garcia started his career as a middleweight, made it in the top ten with an upset knockout of Ken Norton.........

So the start of the golden age in heavyweight boxing was really more gold-plated than anything.
I can truely say I can only see four or five fighters from 1970 being competitive in our division today. But I can see 100% of todays fighters having a 90% chance of making the 1970 top ten...
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Old 02-25-2012, 09:51 AM   #178
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Default Re: Has the Heavyweight Division ever been this Good?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubby View Post
I guess I will just skip the 60's now and move on to the socalled "golden age" of heavyweights, the 1970's.

we'll start from the start, 1970.

The Ring magazine's top ten of 1970.
Champion: Joe Frazier, 26yo, 5'11" 205lbs, 73"reach, 25-0-0 record.
Frazier was said to be blind in one eye, probably couldnt pass the physical today.

#1 Muhammad Ali, 28yo, 6'3", 215lbs, 80"reach, 30-0-0 record.
Again, Ali could compete in any era.

#2 George Foreman, 22yo, 6'4", 220lbs, 81"reach, 25-0-0 record.
Like Ali Foreman could compete in any era.

#3 Oscar Bonavena, 30yo, 5'10" 205lbs, 73"reach, 40-7-1 record.
Bonavena lost to almost every top fighter he fought, 5'10" would be too short for todays division.

#4 Jerry Quarry, 25yo, 6'0", 194lbs, 72"reach, 47-5-4 record.
Quarry would be very, very small in todays division and was easy cut.

#5 Mac Foster, 25yo, 6'2" 220lbs, 23-1-0 record.
Foster probably could be a top ten fighter today, but not a champ.

#6 Henry Cooper, 37yo, 6'0", 189lbs, 40-13-1 record.
Copper reentered the top ten at 37 years old, clearly proving just how shallow the talent pool was in 1970.

#7 George Chuvalo, see my earlier post.

#8 Sonny Liston, 38yo,(maybe 42yo) 6'1" 220lbs,
Liston would be dead in just a few months, was ko'd a year earlier by Leotis Martin.

#9 Jose M Urtain, 38yo, 5'11", 35-2-0 record,
Urtain was really just a joke, was KO'd by old Henry Cooper.

#10 Jose L Garcia, 6'4", 189lbs, 17-2-1 record.
Garcia started his career as a middleweight, made it in the top ten with an upset knockout of Ken Norton.........

So the start of the golden age in heavyweight boxing was really more gold-plated than anything.
I can truely say I can only see four or five fighters from 1970 being competitive in our division today. But I can see 100% of todays fighters having a 90% chance of making the 1970 top ten...
I agree. And I look forward to run-downs of the remainder of the '70's and '90's. I hope you keep it up.
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Old 02-25-2012, 11:20 AM   #179
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Default Re: Has the Heavyweight Division ever been this Good?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubby View Post
Let's start proving how good or bad todays division is...

Ring magazine's top ten of 2012:

Champion: Wladimir Klitschko, 35yo, 6'6", 243lbs, 81"reach, 56-3-0 record,
RING/IBF/WBO/IBO/WBA champion,

#1 Vitali Klitschko, 40yo, 6'7", 250lbs, 82"reach, 44-2-0 record,
WBC champion, never knocked down, never behind in a fight.

#2 Alexand Povetkin, 32yo, 6'2", 225lbs, 76"reach, 23-0-0 record,
has beaten two other fighters in the top ten.

#3 Tomasz Adamek, 35yo, 6'2" 216lbs, 76"reach, 44-2-0 record,
has beaten no other top ten fighters, former LHW/Cruiser champion.

#4 Eddie Chambers, 30yo, 6'1", 210lbs, 76"reach, 36-2-0 record,
only lost to two other top ten fighters.

#5 Alexander Dimitrernko, 29yo, 6'7", 255lbs, 83"reach, 32-1-0 record,
only lost to #4.

#6 Robert Helenius, 28yo, 6'6", 240lbs, 80"reach, 17-0-0 record,

#7 Denis Boytsov, 26yo, 6'1", 215lbs, 30-0-0 record,

#8 Rusland Chagaev, 33yo, 6'0", 225lbs, 74"reach, 28-2-1 record,
former champion, only lost to other top ten fighters.

#9 Chris Arreola, 30yo, 6'4", 245lbs, 77"reach, 35-2-0 record,
only lost to other top ten fighters.

#10 Kubrat Pulev, 30yo, 6'5", 250lbs, 15-0-0.

Now we can compare this top ten with past top ten's and see how good it actually is..
There was really no change from 70 until 72. Now with the two years of the 70's "Golden age" out of the way we can move on to 1972.

The Ring magazine's top ten of 1972

Champion: Joe Frazier, See my earlier post.

#1 Muhammad Ali, See my earlier post.

#2 George Foreman. See my earlier post.

#3 Jimmy Eills, 33yo, Eills by now had a 36-7-0 record, he re-enter the top ten after beating 10-13-0 **** Gosha.

#4 Ron Lyle, 31yo, 6'2" 215lbs, 19-0-0 record.
Lyle had only been a pro for 12 months, was in prison most of his life.

#5 Floyd Patterson, 38yo, 6'0", 188lbs, 55-8-1 record.
38 year old Patterson re-enter the top ten with an upset win over Oscar Bonavna. This was the last year of his career.

#6 Ernie Terrell, 32yo, 6'6", 220lbs, 45-7-0 record.
Terrell re-enter the top ten by upsetting Jose Carcia. Would fight for only one more year.

#7 Jose Roman, 36yo, 5'9", 192lbs, 71"reach, 41-7-1 record.
Another joke of a fighter, Too small even for 72.
Ended his career with a 55-27-3 record.

#8 Joe Bugner, 22yo, 6'4" 225lbs, 82"reach, 37-4-1 record.
A good all-around boxer, no punch power, the Alexander Dimitranko of 72.

#9 Ken Norton, 29yo, 6'3", 210lbs, 80"reach, 29-1-0 record.
Norton had already been knocked down six times and out once as a pro by 72.

#10 Jose Garcia. See my earlier post.

As anybody can see, 72 was not light-years ahead of any top ten much less 2012...
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Old 02-25-2012, 12:00 PM   #180
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Default Re: Has the Heavyweight Division ever been this Good?

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Pathetic Post from a Degenerated inbred.

Hw division is Good the Americans Clowns wont control it for awhile.
Typical post from someone with no point to make. This era is awful.
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