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View Poll Results: How do you rate today's HW division fighters H2H with past Heavies?
As good or better than it ever was 31 15.98%
Good, but not the best 28 14.43%
About average 37 19.07%
Poor 61 31.44%
Abysmal 37 19.07%
Voters: 194. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 03-20-2012, 04:38 AM   #286
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Default Re: Has the Heavyweight Division ever been this Good?

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Photo does not show for me. I see your location is London so I am guessing it was expressing dissapproval with the text you enlarged?
There was no photo
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Old 03-20-2012, 10:42 PM   #287
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Default Re: Has the Heavyweight Division ever been this Good?

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Let's start proving how good or bad todays division is...

Ring magazine's top ten of 2012:

Champion: Wladimir Klitschko, 35yo, 6'6", 243lbs, 81"reach, 56-3-0 record,
RING/IBF/WBO/IBO/WBA champion,

#1 Vitali Klitschko, 40yo, 6'7", 250lbs, 82"reach, 44-2-0 record,
WBC champion, never knocked down, never behind in a fight.

#2 Alexand Povetkin, 32yo, 6'2", 225lbs, 76"reach, 23-0-0 record,
has beaten two other fighters in the top ten.

#3 Tomasz Adamek, 35yo, 6'2" 216lbs, 76"reach, 44-2-0 record,
has beaten no other top ten fighters, former LHW/Cruiser champion.

#4 Eddie Chambers, 30yo, 6'1", 210lbs, 76"reach, 36-2-0 record,
only lost to two other top ten fighters.

#5 Alexander Dimitrernko, 29yo, 6'7", 255lbs, 83"reach, 32-1-0 record,
only lost to #4.

#6 Robert Helenius, 28yo, 6'6", 240lbs, 80"reach, 17-0-0 record,

#7 Denis Boytsov, 26yo, 6'1", 215lbs, 30-0-0 record,

#8 Rusland Chagaev, 33yo, 6'0", 225lbs, 74"reach, 28-2-1 record,
former champion, only lost to other top ten fighters.

#9 Chris Arreola, 30yo, 6'4", 245lbs, 77"reach, 35-2-0 record,
only lost to other top ten fighters.

#10 Kubrat Pulev, 30yo, 6'5", 250lbs, 15-0-0.

Now we can compare this top ten with past top ten's and see how good it actually is..
Now we move on to the last year of the awesome 90s.

The Ring magazine's top 10 from 1999.

Champion: Vacant.

#1 Lennox Lewis.

#2 Evander Holyfield.

#3 Michael Grant, see my 98 top 10.

#4 Ike Ibeabuchi.

#5 David Tua.

#6 Mike Tyson. Tyson was shot by 99.

#7 Vitali Klitschko.

#8 Andrew Golota.

#9 Derrick Jefferson. Jefferson would soon be KO'd by both Wladimir Klitschko and Oleg Maskaev.

#10 Oleg Maskaev.
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Old 03-21-2012, 01:22 PM   #288
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Default Re: Has the Heavyweight Division ever been this Good?

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Now we move on to the last year of the awesome 90s.

The Ring magazine's top 10 from 1999.

Champion: Vacant.

#1 Lennox Lewis.

#2 Evander Holyfield.

#3 Michael Grant, see my 98 top 10.

#4 Ike Ibeabuchi.

#5 David Tua.

#6 Mike Tyson. Tyson was shot by 99.

#7 Vitali Klitschko.

#8 Andrew Golota.

#9 Derrick Jefferson. Jefferson would soon be KO'd by both Wladimir Klitschko and Oleg Maskaev.

#10 Oleg Maskaev.
Now after I've post 40 years of the top ten best of the past, ask yourself this, "How many were miles ahead of today?
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Old 04-07-2012, 12:53 PM   #289
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Default Re: Has the Heavyweight Division ever been this Good?

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Originally Posted by Bubby View Post
Now after I've post 40 years of the top ten best of the past, ask yourself this, "How many were miles ahead of today?
The majority of the ones you posted are significantly better than todays top 10.
This is reflected in the polls, and this also reflected amongst the experts.

The Ring Magazine also give their input.

In this thread the Ring Magazine gives their Top 5 Heavyweights for each decade. They also grade each decade. Enjoy!

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
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Old 04-07-2012, 01:45 PM   #290
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Default Re: Has the Heavyweight Division ever been this Good?

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Now after I've post 40 years of the top ten best of the past, ask yourself this, "How many were miles ahead of today?
The contenders' lists you've posted were full of very forgettable names. Certainly only a few lists would be significantly better than today's top ten.
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Old 04-07-2012, 02:05 PM   #291
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Default Re: Has the Heavyweight Division ever been this Good?

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No, the heavyweight era is not as good as it's ever been.

The Klitschko brothers are good boxers, and Wladimir is a heavyweight ATG in my opinion. Not so much Vitali. They have been dominating the division for a long time now, and you have to give them credit for that.
Good division or not, it takes talent and skill to dominate a division without losing a fight.

Then we have the tier below the Klitschko brothers, where the likes of Haye, Chambers and Arreola are. They are good boxers for sure, but in an era like the 80's, 90's, 70's or 60's they really wouldn't be all that. David Haye is the only guy out of them that would be a considerable contender in those era's. Chambers and Arreola would not. Fast Eddie should really be at cruiserweight also.
Arreola is fat and should really slim down, as should guys like Samuel Peter and to an extent Eddie Chambers. They're coming in like bloated pigs because they don't have to make weight, they don't have to be slim or be overly fit or athletic.

Below that you have your Povetkin's and Adamek's and Chisora's, whom are contenders.

Below that, you the Fury's and Price's and Wilder's whom are prospects.

No, it's clearly not the best heavyweight era. There are no legends, or memorable personalities, or wars. I don't give a damn about new methods or nutrition. It doesn't make shit boxers into the next Muhammad Ali or Mike Tyson. Their skills are still terrible, whether or not they're healthier. ****, are they even healthier? For all of these modern training methods, a lot of these guys are still fat and can barely go 12 rounds.

My two cents. But it isn't as bad as some make it out to be.
Take a good look at the the top 10 guys in the 70's below.


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I guess I will just skip the 60's now and move on to the socalled "golden age" of heavyweights, the 1970's.

we'll start from the start, 1970.

The Ring magazine's top ten of 1970.
Champion: Joe Frazier, 26yo, 5'11" 205lbs, 73"reach, 25-0-0 record.
Frazier was said to be blind in one eye, probably couldnt pass the physical today.

#1 Muhammad Ali, 28yo, 6'3", 215lbs, 80"reach, 30-0-0 record.
Again, Ali could compete in any era.

#2 George Foreman, 22yo, 6'4", 220lbs, 81"reach, 25-0-0 record.
Like Ali Foreman could compete in any era.

#3 Oscar Bonavena, 30yo, 5'10" 205lbs, 73"reach, 40-7-1 record.
Bonavena lost to almost every top fighter he fought, 5'10" would be too short for todays division.

#4 Jerry Quarry, 25yo, 6'0", 194lbs, 72"reach, 47-5-4 record.
Quarry would be very, very small in todays division and was easy cut.

#5 Mac Foster, 25yo, 6'2" 220lbs, 23-1-0 record.
Foster probably could be a top ten fighter today, but not a champ.

#6 Henry Cooper, 37yo, 6'0", 189lbs, 40-13-1 record.
Copper reentered the top ten at 37 years old, clearly proving just how shallow the talent pool was in 1970.

#7 George Chuvalo, see my earlier post.

#8 Sonny Liston, 38yo,(maybe 42yo) 6'1" 220lbs,
Liston would be dead in just a few months, was ko'd a year earlier by Leotis Martin.

#9 Jose M Urtain, 38yo, 5'11", 35-2-0 record,
Urtain was really just a joke, was KO'd by old Henry Cooper.

#10 Jose L Garcia, 6'4", 189lbs, 17-2-1 record.
Garcia started his career as a middleweight, made it in the top ten with an upset knockout of Ken Norton.........

So the start of the golden age in heavyweight boxing was really more gold-plated than anything.
I can truely say I can only see four or five fighters from 1970 being competitive in our division today. But I can see 100% of todays fighters having a 90% chance of making the 1970 top ten...


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Ok, now we can move on from 1973 to 74

Ring magazine's top ten from 1974

Champion: Muhammad Ali,

#1 George Foreman.

#2 Joe Frazier. would have only three fights after 74.

#3 Ron lyle.

#4 Oscar Bonavena, Bonavena would have only two more fights after 74.

#5 Joe Bugner, see my eralier post.

#6 Ken Norton, Norton fell from #3 in 73 down to #6 in 74.

#7 Jerry Quarry, very end of his career.

#8 Chuck Wepner, see my 73 post.

#9 Henry Clark, 30yo, 6'3", 215lbs, 32-8-3 record.
Clark had been around for 10 years, but this was the first time he made the ring. Clark replaced Jimmy Eills. Henry never beat a top fighter.

#10 Larry Middleton, 6'5", 209lbs, 21-5-2 record.
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Originally Posted by Bubby View Post

Now we can move on to 1976.

The Ring magazine's top ten of 76

Champion: Muhammad Ali. This was not the 209lb 1966 Ali anymore, but a 34yo, 225 Ali.

#1 George Foreman, this was Foreman's last year in the 70's top ten.

#2 Ken Norton, by 76 Norton had been knocked down 10 times and out twice.

#3 Jimmy Young, by 76 Young's record had fell to 20-5-2.

#4 Duane Bobick, see my 75 post.

#5 Ron lyle.

#6 Larry Holmes, 27yo, 6'3", 210lbs, 81"reach, 22-0-0 record.
By 76 Holmes had beaten no one in the top 20...

#7 Howard Smith, 29yo, 6'3" 200lbs, 81"reach, 16-1-0 record.
Smith was only a pro for 6 years. He only fought one top ten fighter and was KO'd by him.

#8 Johnny Boudreaux, 24yo, 6'2" 199lbs, 19-1-1 record.
Boudreaux was a club fighter only..

#9 Stan Ward, 27yo, 6'2", 215lbs, 6-0-2 record.
Ward had two fights in 74, four fights in 75 and two fights in 76 all over no-name opponents, but still made the top ten.

#10 Joe Bunger,

So by 76 the golden age of heavyweight boxing had impolded!
Chagaev, Ibragimov, Haye, Brewster, Adamek, Povetkin, Gomez would all be top 10 HW's in the 70's or 90's. Any claim to the contrary is absurdity.
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Old 04-07-2012, 04:10 PM   #292
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Default Re: Has the Heavyweight Division ever been this Good?

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Originally Posted by Vysotsky View Post
Take a good look at the the top 10 guys in the 70's below.


Chagaev, Ibragimov, Haye, Brewster, Adamek, Povetkin, Gomez would all be top 10 HW's in the 70's or 90's. Any claim to the contrary is absurdity.
They would be the soft touch opponents that the Champions or top contenders feed on before they engage in a serious affair. Could they make it into the top 10 list? Some of them could make an appearance but remain a permanent fixture throughout the decade? No. I don't see that. Minus the K Brothers possibly Haye or Chagaev might cut the mustard but the rest of them would be non factors in the 70s, 80s and 90s.
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Old 04-18-2012, 08:18 PM   #293
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Default Re: Has the Heavyweight Division ever been this Good?

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They would be the soft touch opponents that the Champions or top contenders feed on before they engage in a serious affair. Could they make it into the top 10 list? Some of them could make an appearance but remain a permanent fixture throughout the decade? No. I don't see that. Minus the K Brothers possibly Haye or Chagaev might cut the mustard but the rest of them would be non factors in the 70s, 80s and 90s.
You're just stupid!
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Old 04-18-2012, 09:37 PM   #294
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Default Re: Has the Heavyweight Division ever been this Good?

All these weak era proponents are probably big Global Warming supporters. Any myth that the currupt powers that be can forced feed the ignorant masses like Ironchimp, get inhaled like crack flavored pablum down the gullet of a baby born addicted to narcotics.


< Weak era and Global Warming zealots!
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Old 04-19-2012, 05:21 PM   #295
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Default Re: Has the Heavyweight Division ever been this Good?

I think it's not that great right now. It may be better than I think, but with the way the Klitschko brothers are dominating, it makes everyone else look like shit! I do think that either brother would dominate in any era though.
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Old 04-19-2012, 05:32 PM   #296
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Default Re: Has the Heavyweight Division ever been this Good?

By the way thanks Bubby for all those stats! Very interesting. People have agreed that Ali was the best and always will be the best forever and ever. No matter what. Same with Babe Ruth and Michael Jordan. It seems like people just want to designate someone as the best of all time and record it into a book of FACTS, like an encyclopedia or something. Times change man. When I was growing up people spoke of Foreman as being one of the biggest, stongest athletes of all time with legendary power! At 6' 4" 220 lbs? Legends are just like myths. Derek Jefferson was the same size as Foreman that's why he played him in the movie Ali!
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Old 04-19-2012, 05:33 PM   #297
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Default Re: Has the Heavyweight Division ever been this Good?

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Originally Posted by Nosbor View Post
All these weak era proponents are probably big Global Warming supporters. Any myth that the currupt powers that be can forced feed the ignorant masses like Ironchimp, get inhaled like crack flavored pablum down the gullet of a baby born addicted to narcotics.


< Weak era and Global Warming zealots!
Perfect!
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Old 04-19-2012, 08:43 PM   #298
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Default Re: Has the Heavyweight Division ever been this Good?

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Originally Posted by Vlad de Impaler View Post
By the way thanks Bubby for all those stats! Very interesting. People have agreed that Ali was the best and always will be the best forever and ever. No matter what. Same with Babe Ruth and Michael Jordan. It seems like people just want to designate someone as the best of all time and record it into a book of FACTS, like an encyclopedia or something. Times change man. When I was growing up people spoke of Foreman as being one of the biggest, stongest athletes of all time with legendary power! At 6' 4" 220 lbs? Legends are just like myths. Derek Jefferson was the same size as Foreman that's why he played him in the movie Ali!
Nice post but it was actually Charles Shufford that played Foreman in that film.
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Old 04-19-2012, 09:43 PM   #299
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Default Re: Has the Heavyweight Division ever been this Good?

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Originally Posted by Vlad de Impaler View Post
By the way thanks Bubby for all those stats! Very interesting. People have agreed that Ali was the best and always will be the best forever and ever. No matter what. Same with Babe Ruth and Michael Jordan. It seems like people just want to designate someone as the best of all time and record it into a book of FACTS, like an encyclopedia or something. Times change man. When I was growing up people spoke of Foreman as being one of the biggest, stongest athletes of all time with legendary power! At 6' 4" 220 lbs? Legends are just like myths. Derek Jefferson was the same size as Foreman that's why he played him in the movie Ali!
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Nice post but it was actually Charles Shufford that played Foreman in that film.
I was going to say Jefferson was 6'6 and James Toney played Frazier
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Old 04-22-2012, 07:35 PM   #300
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Default Re: Has the Heavyweight Division ever been this Good?

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You're just stupid!


Anything else?


Look I'm not going to lie to you and tell you that the division is good. It doesn't work that way.

Sorry if you're butthurt, that's just how it is.
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