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Old 12-29-2011, 05:12 PM   #46
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Default Re: Rank the p4p top 5 in MMA

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afterglow - you cant say that about Jobby Jones yet at the same time have Anderson as your top 1 or 2

Anderson is naturally a LHW who cuts to beat up midgets

Anderson shouldnt be fighting at mw. JBJ should move up soon. And thats cause they are too big and far too dominant where they are. But both are top 3 p4p for sure
Okami isn't any smaller than Anderson, nor is Franklin, yet he beat them down with ease.

Anderson also use to be a WW.

I really doubt Jones could ever cut to 185.
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Old 12-29-2011, 05:23 PM   #47
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Okami isn't any smaller than Anderson, nor is Franklin, yet he beat them down with ease.

Anderson also use to be a WW.

I really doubt Jones could ever cut to 185.


Anderson is very very comfortable at 205, in fact he's a beast there. But it would at least challenge him (at least Jones would)

Thats what youre puting Bones down for - fighting at a weight he can cut to but is extremely dominant at - exactly the same for the Spida
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Old 12-29-2011, 05:39 PM   #48
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Anderson is very very comfortable at 205, in fact he's a beast there. But it would at least challenge him (at least Jones would)

Thats what youre puting Bones down for - fighting at a weight he can cut to but is extremely dominant at - exactly the same for the Spida
No i'm not.

How many times has Anderson had a 10 inch reach advantage on his opponants since being in the UFC?
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Old 12-29-2011, 05:43 PM   #49
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No i'm not.

How many times has Anderson had a 10 inch reach advantage on his opponants since being in the UFC?


The spider has an huge advantage against any mw opponant
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Old 12-29-2011, 05:50 PM   #50
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Thats one of the most stupid things I've ever heard. You are a moron.

Thats like saying Anderson Silva shouldn't be in the top ten because he's to naturally gifted and it isn't fair.

And reach isn't everything, how come this man isn't dominating?

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Jon Jones has a longer reach than Struve.

Jones is a bum with long arms and genetic freak chicken legs which is the only reason he has ever won a fight. How dare he tailor his game plan in order to best make use of his unique body type and physical attributes. How dare he utterly brutalise what was recently thought of as one of the deepest divisions in MMA. How dare he use his freak limbs and enormous size and length to put together a dominant title run, the likes of which has not been seen in that division in years. He's a talentless bum who won a genetic lottery.
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Old 12-30-2011, 02:40 AM   #51
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Default Re: Rank the p4p top 5 in MMA

Noone else got any love for Benavidez? Guy is quite small for his new flyweight division and he has battered former bantamweight champs in Torres and Wineland at their weight. He's been the most competitive guy with Cruz, too.
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Old 12-30-2011, 03:34 AM   #52
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Jones isn't there because he doesn't belong their due to his physical advantages.

Jones is a HW with possibly the longest reach in MMA, and is fighting at LHW.

A few months ago Dan, who is a MW, went up to HW and beat a top ten within a round.

Dan fights at his walk around weight at LHW, Jones is a much larger than his opponants.

He may not bloat up to 250 like Page's fat ass, but he is bigger than everyone he faces, yet Dan rarely is.

Edgar doesn't cut any weight and beat the best LW ever two times in a row.

Aldo has cleaned out his division with ease for the most part other than gassing, but that is mostly due to the cut, not him getting beaten up.

Jones dominates people because of his height and reach. And that is not what P4P is about at all. Infact he is the opposite of what it is.

Anderson has beaten everyone in his weightclass and even moved up two times.

GSP has dominated his class with easy for several years.

And i've already spoke on the other two.

It's just common sense to look past the hype and see that Jones is winning because he won the dinosaur arms lottery.

How the **** do you give Aldo props while trashing Jones? You acknowledge that Aldo gassed in the Hominick fight from the cut. That's because he's been boiling down to 145 from close to 170 since he moved over to the UFC. The dude is a MASSIVE Featherweight. He cuts twice as much weight to make 145 as Jones does to make 205, yet Jones is the guy fighting in the wrong weight class?

This post is joke.
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Old 12-30-2011, 03:37 AM   #53
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No i'm not.

How many times has Anderson had a 10 inch reach advantage on his opponants since being in the UFC?

Yeah, because having a ten inch reach advantage guarantees an easy victory.

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Old 12-30-2011, 04:50 AM   #54
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afterglow - you cant say that about Jobby Jones yet at the same time have Anderson as your top 1 or 2

Anderson is naturally a LHW who cuts to beat up midgets

Anderson shouldnt be fighting at mw. JBJ should move up soon. And thats cause they are too big and far too dominant where they are. But both are top 3 p4p for sure
I do not think anyone would try to argue that JBJ is anything other than an elite mixed martial artist; we are, perhaps, witnessing someone who could be mentioned in the pantheon of mixed martial arts greats, when he hangs up his gloves.

Notwithstanding that, it is a legitimate question to ask why LHW who stands at 6'4", has an 84" reach and uses those physical advantages as much, if not more, than any facet of his game, is seen as a lock at number three on most people's pound for pound lists.

I can not recall seeing JBJ fight a top fighter of at least comparable physical proportions, which you can not say about Silva.

Clearly, size is not everything, however, in Silva's case, he is arguably the most proficient (hand) striker in the game today; I do not see one facet of Jones' skill set that is as outstanding to the point of being peerless without considering how he uses his size to augment it.
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Old 12-30-2011, 06:01 AM   #55
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I do not think anyone would try to argue that JBJ is anything other than an elite mixed martial artist; we are, perhaps, witnessing someone who could be mentioned in the pantheon of mixed martial arts greats, when he hangs up his gloves.

Notwithstanding that, it is a legitimate question to ask why LHW who stands at 6'4", has an 84" reach and uses those physical advantages as much, if not more, than any facet of his game, is seen as a lock at number three on most people's pound for pound lists.

I can not recall seeing JBJ fight a top fighter of at least comparable physical proportions, which you can not say about Silva.

Clearly, size is not everything, however, in Silva's case, he is arguably the most proficient (hand) striker in the game today; I do not see one facet of Jones' skill set that is as outstanding to the point of being peerless without considering how he uses his size to augment it.

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Old 12-30-2011, 06:15 AM   #56
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I do not think anyone would try to argue that JBJ is anything other than an elite mixed martial artist; we are, perhaps, witnessing someone who could be mentioned in the pantheon of mixed martial arts greats, when he hangs up his gloves.

Notwithstanding that, it is a legitimate question to ask why LHW who stands at 6'4", has an 84" reach and uses those physical advantages as much, if not more, than any facet of his game, is seen as a lock at number three on most people's pound for pound lists.

I can not recall seeing JBJ fight a top fighter of at least comparable physical proportions, which you can not say about Silva.

Clearly, size is not everything, however, in Silva's case, he is arguably the most proficient (hand) striker in the game today; I do not see one facet of Jones' skill set that is as outstanding to the point of being peerless without considering how he uses his size to augment it.


Wins over Shogun Machida and Rampage - all in devastating fashion - are the reason he's at least the 3rd top fighter pour moi

I want him to move up though and really challenge himself against the bigger dudes, the way a Penn or Fedor used to. Hopefully that will happen soonish
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Old 12-30-2011, 06:52 AM   #57
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Leaving aside Jones' big reach advantages over both fighters, do you consider both Bonner and Vera to be top fighters in the 205 division?

Please bear in mind I am not setting out to denigrate or cast aspersions upon JBJ's skill set, resume etc. I am making a point about how much his skill set is greatly augmented by his physical proportions.

The poster who first raised questions about JBJ in the P4P sense made have made this point (somewhat more coarsely than absolutely necessary) and he got a lot of stick for that. However, I agree with his/her sentiment that it legitimate to question why JBJ is such a lock top three on many people's pound for pound lists.


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Wins over Shogun Machida and Rampage - all in devastating fashion - are the reason he's at least the 3rd top fighter pour moi

I want him to move up though and really challenge himself against the bigger dudes, the way a Penn or Fedor used to. Hopefully that will happen soonish
I agree JBJ is ****ing brilliant but I just have reservations about lauding him in a pound for pound sense when his size and reach is so obviously a factor in his ascent and now seemingly his establishment as the UFC LHW Champion.

An unpopular view - clearly - and I could be wrong but how can I learn more about the sport without having my views challenged?
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Old 12-30-2011, 08:19 AM   #58
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Leaving aside Jones' big reach advantages over both fighters, do you consider both Bonner and Vera to be top fighters in the 205 division?

Please bear in mind I am not setting out to denigrate or cast aspersions upon JBJ's skill set, resume etc. I am making a point about how much his skill set is greatly augmented by his physical proportions.

The poster who first raised questions about JBJ in the P4P sense made have made this point (somewhat more coarsely than absolutely necessary) and he got a lot of stick for that. However, I agree with his/her sentiment that it legitimate to question why JBJ is such a lock top three on many people's pound for pound lists.




I agree JBJ is ****ing brilliant but I just have reservations about lauding him in a pound for pound sense when his size and reach is so obviously a factor in his ascent and now seemingly his establishment as the UFC LHW Champion.

An unpopular view - clearly - and I could be wrong but how can I learn more about the sport without having my views challenged?

No, I don't consider Vera and Bonnar to be top contenders, but I've got to ask you, who are these similarly proportioned fighters in the top 10 at LHW whom Jones should be testing himself against?

As far as fighters who have comparable physiques to Jones at LHW in the UFC presently, you have Bonnar who is 6'4" with an 80" reach, Kyle Kingsbury who is 6'4" with a 79" reach, Cyrille Diabate who is 6'6" with an 82" reach, Aaron Rosa who is 6'4" with a 78" reach and Alexander Gustafsson with 6'5" with a 76" reach. None of these guys are ranked in the in top 5 in spite of what people are claiming to be insurmountable physical advantages as they apply to Jones. I don't see how Jones can be criticized for his body type and have his success attributed solely to his physical dimensions when there are several similarly built fighters in his weight class who aren't anywhere near as dominant.

ETA: Another example to buttress my point is the LHW incarnation of Alistair Overeem, who despite being 6'5" with an 82" reach, wasn't anywhere near as successful in his campaign at that weight as Jones has been in the UFC.
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Old 12-30-2011, 10:13 AM   #59
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Default Re: Rank the p4p top 5 in MMA

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I agree JBJ is ****ing brilliant but I just have reservations about lauding him in a pound for pound sense when his size and reach is so obviously a factor in his ascent and now seemingly his establishment as the UFC LHW Champion.

An unpopular view - clearly - and I could be wrong but how can I learn more about the sport without having my views challenged?


Its all good my man, its good to challenge things, shame that all too often that turns into insults and playground bitch fights. You (and the other poster) raised a good point, which i think Thom's given the best answer to in the post above.
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Old 12-30-2011, 10:33 AM   #60
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No, I don't consider Vera and Bonnar to be top contenders, but I've got to ask you, who are these similarly proportioned fighters in the top 10 at LHW whom Jones should be testing himself against?
There is a division above LHW.

Let's take the Machida fight. It was widely accepted that Machida was an elite LHW prior to the Jones fight and I - and I am sure others too - will say that Machida is still an elite LHW. However, it seems hard to believe that JBJ would be able to pull off the guillotine choke that finished Machida on, say, Shane Carwin, Cain Velasquez or Frank Mir.

That is conjecture but I think, on the balance of probabilities, I am within my rights to hypothesise in that way. It took skill to perform the move and he made it a fight finishing move because of his physical prowess; I very much doubt any other LHW would have done that to Machida.

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As far as fighters who have comparable physiques to Jones at LHW in the UFC presently, you have Bonnar who is 6'4" with an 80" reach, Kyle Kingsbury who is 6'4" with a 79" reach, Cyrille Diabate who is 6'6" with an 82" reach, Aaron Rosa who is 6'4" with a 78" reach and Alexander Gustafsson with 6'5" with a 76" reach. None of these guys are ranked in the in top 5 in spite of what people are claiming to be insurmountable physical advantages as they apply to Jones. I don't see how Jones can be criticized for his body type and have his success attributed solely to his physical dimensions when there are several similarly built fighters in his weight class who aren't anywhere near as dominant.
I can only repeat that I do not say that Jones' success is solely attributed to his physical dimensions. He clearly has a superior skill set to these similarly proportioned fighters you have helpfully listed. However, if you took 3" or 4" from his height and 8" - 10" from his reach, would he have achieved the same dominant successes against Shogun, Jackson and Machida? Again, it would be educated guess work but for me, these physical dimensions are what elevate him above the rest of the division and it is not a stick to beat him with but a fact. It is not a reason to demean him or denigrate his achievements but is almost certainly a reason why I can not agree with people who say he is a lock for the top three of the sport's mythical pound for pound lists.

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ETA: Another example to buttress my point is the LHW incarnation of Alistair Overeem, who despite being 6'5" with an 82" reach, wasn't anywhere near as successful in his campaign at that weight as Jones has been in the UFC.
If Jones moves up to heavyweight and is successful then it certainly won't hurt the argument that he is top 3, pound for pound.

We would then see if Jones can be as successful as Overeem in his campaign as a heavyweight.
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