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Old 12-31-2011, 01:54 PM   #46
AnthonyJ74
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Default Re: Why did Lesnar never develop as a fighter?

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Trust me bub i got a BIG ass pair. REAL TALK.
So many tough guys on here. Everyone wants to be KING!!!
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Old 12-31-2011, 01:58 PM   #47
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Default Re: Why did Lesnar never develop as a fighter?

He could have been a complete monster if he took it up right after college. Imagine guys like Cormier and Lesnar coming straight out of wrestling to mma.

In 5-10 years we are going to have some serious monsters in mma if the popularity keeps up.
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Old 12-31-2011, 02:45 PM   #48
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Default Re: Why did Lesnar never develop as a fighter?

Lesnar was always commercialized as a fighter. I'm not a huge MMA fan, but I know the basics and fundamentals. The times i've heard shit like "The baddest man on the planet" or "The biggest upset in UFC history.." I knew it was a bluff. The guy was being commercialized cause he was a sell for the public. He had the attitude that the fans loved, or they loved to hate. He was a huge sell for Dana and the UFC as a whole. He's pretty much a American version of Mario Pudzilla. Same amount of fame, big, beefy, poor stamina, lots of strength, came from crossover sports, but pretty much became a star cause of his celebrity status from WWE and NCAA, as Mario did with WSM and other major strongman competitions. Lesnar is obviously a better fighter cause he has a strong wrestling (real wrestling) background, where Zilla would only have strength on his side...Zilla had to basically start from scratch.

I knew Lesnar wouldn't last, but I thought he would of done better in his career tho....The guy is simply too beefy....You can prolly blame Vince McMahon for this...
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Old 12-31-2011, 04:18 PM   #49
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Default Re: Why did Lesnar never develop as a fighter?

Three major issues in my opinion.

1) Deathclutch. Brock was ultimately in charge of his own training regime and fight camp. He ran things the way he wanted and brought in people he wanted to spar with. He would have been better off with an established camp that had experience building up fighters, crossover wrestlers in particular. He needed a team that would push him to the limits of his potential and quickly identify weaknesses that needed to be corrected - his striking defence being a major example. Brock was a beginner in mixed martial arts, it's no surprise he couldn't train himself effectively and his development was stymied.

2) Jumped in the deep end. After Min Soo Kim he never had an easy fight. I've seen some bash his fights with Heath Herring and Randy Couture, but those were hard tests for a man so inexperienced. Talent needs to be nurtured, and while Brock did well to go 4-3 in the UFC, some softer fights first would have allowed him to build up more confidence in the cage, which is something he never really had, as well as the practical fighting experience.

3) Diverticulitis. After defeating Mir in their rematch, Brock was 3-1 in the UFC and still green, but developing into a serious heavyweight threat. His illness took away time he didn't have and badly interrupted his development as a fighter. After being diagnosed he only fought three times in two and a half years. The effects of the disease as well as the surgeries and time off took their toll on his 'freakish' physical attributes, which were a major cause of his success in the first place.
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Old 12-31-2011, 05:36 PM   #50
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Default Re: Why did Lesnar never develop as a fighter?

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Brock Lesnar was a professional MMA fighter for over 5 years, and had the money to invest in top-quality coaching.

Yet his stand-up game was still every bit as shit last night as it ever was.

Why?

No-one was expecting him to go from Emmanuel Yarborough to Anderson Silva in only 5 years, but still, the lack of improvement over his career was weird.
Fair call. I remember Dan Severn commenting that when he first fought in the UFC he'd never previously struck anyone with a clenched fist. But surely we've come a long way in professionalism since the mid 1990s, and there's no excuse for Lesnar not improving his standup game in 5 years.
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Old 12-31-2011, 06:15 PM   #51
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Default Re: Why did Lesnar never develop as a fighter?

Maybe he just doesn't have the potential/smarts to develop to the level that the other fighters are at. We are talking about the best of the best here.

Last edited by kokoko; 12-31-2011 at 06:25 PM.
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Old 12-31-2011, 07:02 PM   #52
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Default Re: Why did Lesnar never develop as a fighter?

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Originally Posted by One Punch KO View Post
Three major issues in my opinion.

1) Deathclutch. Brock was ultimately in charge of his own training regime and fight camp. He ran things the way he wanted and brought in people he wanted to spar with. He would have been better off with an established camp that had experience building up fighters, crossover wrestlers in particular. He needed a team that would push him to the limits of his potential and quickly identify weaknesses that needed to be corrected - his striking defence being a major example. Brock was a beginner in mixed martial arts, it's no surprise he couldn't train himself effectively and his development was stymied.

2) Jumped in the deep end. After Min Soo Kim he never had an easy fight. I've seen some bash his fights with Heath Herring and Randy Couture, but those were hard tests for a man so inexperienced. Talent needs to be nurtured, and while Brock did well to go 4-3 in the UFC, some softer fights first would have allowed him to build up more confidence in the cage, which is something he never really had, as well as the practical fighting experience.

3) Diverticulitis. After defeating Mir in their rematch, Brock was 3-1 in the UFC and still green, but developing into a serious heavyweight threat. His illness took away time he didn't have and badly interrupted his development as a fighter. After being diagnosed he only fought three times in two and a half years. The effects of the disease as well as the surgeries and time off took their toll on his 'freakish' physical attributes, which were a major cause of his success in the first place.
well said.
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Old 12-31-2011, 07:38 PM   #53
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Default Re: Why did Lesnar never develop as a fighter?

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Originally Posted by One Punch KO View Post
Three major issues in my opinion.

1) Deathclutch. Brock was ultimately in charge of his own training regime and fight camp. He ran things the way he wanted and brought in people he wanted to spar with. He would have been better off with an established camp that had experience building up fighters, crossover wrestlers in particular. He needed a team that would push him to the limits of his potential and quickly identify weaknesses that needed to be corrected - his striking defence being a major example. Brock was a beginner in mixed martial arts, it's no surprise he couldn't train himself effectively and his development was stymied.

2) Jumped in the deep end. After Min Soo Kim he never had an easy fight. I've seen some bash his fights with Heath Herring and Randy Couture, but those were hard tests for a man so inexperienced. Talent needs to be nurtured, and while Brock did well to go 4-3 in the UFC, some softer fights first would have allowed him to build up more confidence in the cage, which is something he never really had, as well as the practical fighting experience.

3) Diverticulitis. After defeating Mir in their rematch, Brock was 3-1 in the UFC and still green, but developing into a serious heavyweight threat. His illness took away time he didn't have and badly interrupted his development as a fighter. After being diagnosed he only fought three times in two and a half years. The effects of the disease as well as the surgeries and time off took their toll on his 'freakish' physical attributes, which were a major cause of his success in the first place.
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Old 12-31-2011, 11:06 PM   #54
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Default Re: Why did Lesnar never develop as a fighter?

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Originally Posted by One Punch KO View Post
Three major issues in my opinion.

1) Deathclutch. Brock was ultimately in charge of his own training regime and fight camp. He ran things the way he wanted and brought in people he wanted to spar with. He would have been better off with an established camp that had experience building up fighters, crossover wrestlers in particular. He needed a team that would push him to the limits of his potential and quickly identify weaknesses that needed to be corrected - his striking defence being a major example. Brock was a beginner in mixed martial arts, it's no surprise he couldn't train himself effectively and his development was stymied.

2) Jumped in the deep end. After Min Soo Kim he never had an easy fight. I've seen some bash his fights with Heath Herring and Randy Couture, but those were hard tests for a man so inexperienced. Talent needs to be nurtured, and while Brock did well to go 4-3 in the UFC, some softer fights first would have allowed him to build up more confidence in the cage, which is something he never really had, as well as the practical fighting experience.

3) Diverticulitis. After defeating Mir in their rematch, Brock was 3-1 in the UFC and still green, but developing into a serious heavyweight threat. His illness took away time he didn't have and badly interrupted his development as a fighter. After being diagnosed he only fought three times in two and a half years. The effects of the disease as well as the surgeries and time off took their toll on his 'freakish' physical attributes, which were a major cause of his success in the first place.


Number 1 seems a common opinion featuring highly.
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Old 01-01-2012, 12:44 AM   #55
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Default Re: Why did Lesnar never develop as a fighter?

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Number 1 seems a common opinion featuring highly.
True. Few if any fighters improve listening to people tell them what they want to hear. Happy new year to you too PIRA
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Old 01-01-2012, 01:09 AM   #56
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Default Re: Why did Lesnar never develop as a fighter?

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True. Few if any fighters improve listening to people tell them what they want to hear. Happy new year to you too PIRA
You too mate. Have a great 2012.
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Old 01-01-2012, 10:17 AM   #57
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Default Re: Why did Lesnar never develop as a fighter?

Because he is not and never was a fighter
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Old 01-01-2012, 11:21 AM   #58
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Default Re: Why did Lesnar never develop as a fighter?

He was a wrestler through and through but I think he did develop his stand up and submission game but just very rudimentary. Even yesterday his stand up did look better but what the **** was he doing standing with Reem. The fact is though he didn't have ANY proper learning fights. In terms of experience and strategy yes but not in terms of skills. Mir, Couture, maybe Herring, Carwin and Cain were full throttle give and take fights.

I also highly suspect that Brock tried to learn in training camps. Your best training and learning will be done out of training camps. No pressure, no camp routine to follow, not preparing for one fighter etc Brock also had his illnesses which stunted development. I think he has only been around 4 years or so.

Ultimately Brock is very talented, with awesome achievements but didn't give himself the best chance at being the best that he could be. Very much like Fedor, eventually what worked for him became stale and when it did, he stayed with the same people in the same place.
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Old 01-01-2012, 11:38 AM   #59
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Default Re: Why did Lesnar never develop as a fighter?

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Ultimately Brock is very talented, with awesome achievements but didn't give himself the best chance at being the best that he could be. Very much like Fedor, eventually what worked for him became stale and when it did, he stayed with the same people in the same place.

You obviously havent heard of Fedor doing more striking work with the best strikers that Holland can offer. You also havent seen how Fedor has become more composed, actually comes in with a gameplan, and how his kicks and punches have changed in a very short timeframe.

People like Fedor are fighters with a fighter mind and fighter mentality and pain resistance. Brock is a CAN hyped up by zuffa, he was never a true fighter, the hasnt changed and developed, and is even scared to get hit.
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Old 01-01-2012, 11:44 AM   #60
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Default Re: Why did Lesnar never develop as a fighter?

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You obviously havent heard of Fedor doing more striking work with the best strikers that Holland can offer. You also havent seen how Fedor has become more composed, actually comes in with a gameplan, and how his kicks and punches have changed in a very short timeframe.

People like Fedor are fighters with a fighter mind and fighter mentality and pain resistance. Brock is a CAN hyped up by zuffa, he was never a true fighter, the hasnt changed and developed, and is even scared to get hit.
Yeah but its quite late in the game when every thinks hes lost his edge and his now showing his striking against small heavies.

You saying Brock is a CAN says this debate will go nowhere.
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