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Old 01-10-2012, 12:37 AM   #16
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Default Re: ~~The New Official ESB Divisional Rankings~~

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So you have Marquez at 135......but no longer have Huck at 200 Huck has not even fought at Heavy yet......once he does, he will be going right back down to Cruiser
After Povetkin, Huck will be re-listed at 200 if he doesn't want to stay at HW. Marquez didn't say about staying at 147. Might Retire. He can be ranked at 135 until he makes his next move.
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Old 01-10-2012, 12:59 AM   #17
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Default Re: ~~The New Official ESB Divisional Rankings~~

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After Povetkin, Huck will be re-listed at 200 if he doesn't want to stay at HW. Marquez didn't say about staying at 147. Might Retire. He can be ranked at 135 until he makes his next move.
He actually mentioned that it's less likely to go back to 135, and feels his body is now better suited to 140lbs. But the Huck thing is clearly a one and done deal unless he wins......which he stated. So like Marquez, when a fighter has a long reign in one weight class, there is no reason to remove him until there officially say they are never going back. See if you look at your ratings at 140, you have Maidana still at 140 lb's ever thought he will be fighting Alexander at 147. Now look at Alexander. he has publicly stated that the division he will compete in for his future is 147, so why keep him at 140? Maidana stated the he will likely fight back at 140 again unless a huge fight presents itself at 47.

A lot of time and effort went into the NEW *offical* ESB ranking, and while it's not perfect, it's better then 90% of the rankings out there
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Old 01-10-2012, 01:05 AM   #18
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Default Re: ~~The New Official ESB Divisional Rankings~~

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He actually mentioned that it's less likely to go back to 135, and feels his body is now better suited to 140lbs. But the Huck thing is clearly a one and done deal unless he wins......which he stated. So like Marquez, when a fighter has a long reign in one weight class, there is no reason to remove him until there officially say they are never going back. See if you look at your ratings at 140, you have Maidana still at 140 lb's ever thought he will be fighting Alexander at 147. Now look at Alexander. he has publicly stated that the division he will compete in for his future is 147, so why keep him at 140? Maidana stated the he will likely fight back at 140 again unless a huge fight presents itself at 47.

A lot of time and effort went into the NEW *offical* ESB ranking, and while it's not perfect, it's better then 90% of the rankings out there
Ah, I didn't know some of this ( Marquez moving to 140, Alexander and Maidana fighting at 147 ). Thanks for the info.
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Old 01-10-2012, 03:02 AM   #19
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Default Re: *****The New Official ESB Divisional Rankings*****

Helenius just lost to chisora so i'd switch them around.

Also huck announced a move up to heavyweight so i'd remove him from the cw rankings.
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Old 01-10-2012, 03:19 AM   #20
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Default Re: *****The New Official ESB Divisional Rankings*****

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Helenius just lost to chisora so i'd switch them around.

Also huck announced a move up to heavyweight so i'd remove him from the cw rankings.
Again....he has stated that this is a permanent move, and said even if he wins, he might move back down......the Marquez, Maidana situation comes into play here.

As for Chisora.....moving him above Helenius, is like moving Marquez above Pacquiao, or Macklin above Sturm....it would be silly to do that. The only situation you could compare would be leaving Khan above Peterson, but that was due a few different factors.....starting with the level of competition he has faced, and how he has done against it. It terms of level of fighter, he is above Peterson in every way, and Peterson himself admitted on our show that his Khan win based on points being taken away, was not the way he would of wanted it, and did take away from it......but the ranking there will likely change after the appeal is heard......the ESB ranking don't jump the gun.....it would be like ranking Chad Dawson #1 after his fight with Hopkins....once it's set in stone...so will the rankings.
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Old 01-10-2012, 04:29 AM   #21
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Default Re: *****The New Official ESB Divisional Rankings*****

Question: What has George Groves and James de Gale done more than Oosthuizen to deserve a place in those rankings? When most unbias experts and The Ring rate Oosthuizen higher?
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Old 01-10-2012, 05:36 AM   #22
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Default Re: *****The New Official ESB Divisional Rankings*****

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Question: What has George Groves and James de Gale done more than Oosthuizen to deserve a place in those rankings? When most unbias experts and The Ring rate Oosthuizen higher?
Well, he was rated #11 by the commision, but I agree that he should be higher the DeGale based on the fact alone that he holds my favorite belt....the IBO Groves is rated in all 4 ABC ratings, and does have that high profile win over Degale, and also a good follow up against Paul Smith. Your point abour Oosthuizen being higher then DeGale is noted, and while I still would have Groves ahead of him slightly, I will put this to commision vote at the next meeting
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Old 01-10-2012, 08:10 AM   #23
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Default Re: *****The New Official ESB Divisional Rankings*****

I thought huck announced a permanent move

I don't pay much attention to official results but I understand why other's do. Considering I had chisora beating helenius I couldn't rank him above.

Khan v peterson, I thought it was a peterson victory and don't see any reason to put khan above lamont. If the appeal upholds the decision will you switch them?

Great work btw, how often will they be updated?
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Old 01-10-2012, 09:51 AM   #24
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Default Re: *****The New Official ESB Divisional Rankings*****

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I thought huck announced a permanent move

I don't pay much attention to official results but I understand why other's do. Considering I had chisora beating helenius I couldn't rank him above.

Khan v peterson, I thought it was a peterson victory and don't see any reason to put khan above lamont. If the appeal upholds the decision will you switch them?

Great work btw, how often will they be updated?
Once the decision is upheld, then Lamont will be moved above Khan. He was moved to number 3 based on his performance against Khan, and would of been moved to 2, but there is that appeal out there due to that guy ring side, so rather and job the gun it can wait till it becomes 100% official. The same thing would of been done with Dawson-Hopkins even though that was more one sided in favor of a No Contest.

As for how often, I think they will be updated at least once every 2 weeks in the forum thread, top to bottom. When there is a really big result on a weekend, that division might get updated sooner. But thanks for the feedback, the goal with these ranking is to have a simple yet accurate top 10 that reflects the best in each division from the view of ESB.
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Old 01-10-2012, 11:33 AM   #25
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Default Re: *****The New Official ESB Divisional Rankings*****

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Once the decision is upheld, then Lamont will be moved above Khan. He was moved to number 3 based on his performance against Khan, and would of been moved to 2, but there is that appeal out there due to that guy ring side, so rather and job the gun it can wait till it becomes 100% official. The same thing would of been done with Dawson-Hopkins even though that was more one sided in favor of a No Contest.

As for how often, I think they will be updated at least once every 2 weeks in the forum thread, top to bottom. When there is a really big result on a weekend, that division might get updated sooner. But thanks for the feedback, the goal with these ranking is to have a simple yet accurate top 10 that reflects the best in each division from the view of ESB.
That's fair enough I suppose

Is your number 1 going to be like an ESB champion (maybe tracking the traditional lineage?) Or is it going to be more of a dynamic ranking system where various factors could see the number 1 drop top number 2?

SO in a nutshell, if you're doing these rankings in december of 1995 would you have had george foreman as number 1?
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Old 01-10-2012, 12:54 PM   #26
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Default Re: *****The New Official ESB Divisional Rankings*****

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That's fair enough I suppose

Is your number 1 going to be like an ESB champion (maybe tracking the traditional lineage?) Or is it going to be more of a dynamic ranking system where various factors could see the number 1 drop top number 2?

SO in a nutshell, if you're doing these rankings in december of 1995 would you have had george foreman as number 1?
The ESB #1 is at that rank until someone takes that spot by having better claim to the spot. Take Foreman, back in 1994 he would be the number 1, as he beat the legit Champion of the time....in 1995 most people felt he lost to Axel Schulz, and then he dropped off the scene for a year in a half.....during that time Mike Tyson came along, and won 2 of the belts....at that time he would of became #1 over Foreman, who would become kind of like Zsolt Erdei, who has a lineal claim to the Light heavyweight title, but is not considered a champion or the best in the weight class.

As for the #1 being the ESB champ, and that being tracked....that will have to be talked about with the other people involved in the ranking.
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Old 01-10-2012, 01:13 PM   #27
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Default Re: *****The New Official ESB Divisional Rankings*****

i know that i am a big klitschko fan, but i don't get why wlad is so low? imo
1. pac
2. floyd
3. jmm
4. wlad

the first four proved themselves about a time frame of five years.
5. donaire; he has 2 very very big wins, but imo he has to unify his divison first to be ranked higher
6. ward; great talent but he is just 2 years fighting the top competition; if he beats bute, then he can be ranked higher then wlad
7. martinez, i like this guy, but he just beat paul williams(lmw), dzinziruk (lmw), he hasn't beaten anyone special at middleweight. if he would completely clean up the middleweight divison, then i would rank him higher than wlad
8. vitali
9. pjong...
10. gamboa

what do you guys think? no hating please, thats just my honest opinion, p4p consist of talent and proving himself
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Old 01-10-2012, 01:37 PM   #28
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Default Re: *****The New Official ESB Divisional Rankings*****

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i know that i am a big klitschko fan, but i don't get why wlad is so low? imo
1. pac
2. floyd
3. jmm
4. wlad

the first four proved themselves about a time frame of five years.
5. donaire; he has 2 very very big wins, but imo he has to unify his divison first to be ranked higher
6. ward; great talent but he is just 2 years fighting the top competition; if he beats bute, then he can be ranked higher then wlad
7. martinez, i like this guy, but he just beat paul williams(lmw), dzinziruk (lmw), he hasn't beaten anyone special at middleweight. if he would completely clean up the middleweight divison, then i would rank him higher than wlad
8. vitali
9. pjong...
10. gamboa

what do you guys think? no hating please, thats just my honest opinion, p4p consist of talent and proving himself
Cause that talent pool at Heavyweight is so weak right now that Wlad's biggest win was against a hyped up cruiserweight, also Wlad has not been very active that last few years. If Wlad fight's Vitali and beat's him that will be deserving of a top5 p4p ranking in his next fight out...but as of now...it's going to take a bunch more title defenses for Wlad to move up that chart.
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Old 01-10-2012, 02:04 PM   #29
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Default Re: *****The New Official ESB Divisional Rankings*****

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Cause that talent pool at Heavyweight is so weak right now that Wlad's biggest win was against a hyped up cruiserweight, also Wlad has not been very active that last few years. If Wlad fight's Vitali and beat's him that will be deserving of a top5 p4p ranking in his next fight out...but as of now...it's going to take a bunch more title defenses for Wlad to move up that chart.
i give you that, he wasn't active in the last two years and his next defense is against a past it fighter who was never that good but let's be honest, ibragimov and chagaev were A class talent, unbeaten world champions and amateur champions, and this is not A class talent?! haye was the cruiserweight champ and heavyweight titleholder with solid win over valuev and a good win against a former titler holder, he was hyped up, but imo also a very talented A class boxer.
why are dirrell and taylor world class talents, if they were never even amateur champions? but for klitschkos opponents it is always different?
why is there always a difference in the achievements of especially american fighters, even if they achieved the same or less then some of wlad's opponents?
for example ward, the guy has clear talent and will prove over the next years that he is p4p top 5, but why is he immediately top 5 after he beat three top guys of his division?
martinez, he is nice to watch, but he only!!! defeated a limited alcohol addicted pavlik and barker, the rest were not even middleweights.
donaire has some very good wins in montiel, marquez, conception, martinez and darchinyan. it is understandable to rank him above wlad.
but i see no evidence for ranking ward (right now) and martinez above him.

just my opinion and facts
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Old 01-10-2012, 02:13 PM   #30
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Default Re: *****The New Official ESB Divisional Rankings*****

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The ESB #1 is at that rank until someone takes that spot by having better claim to the spot. Take Foreman, back in 1994 he would be the number 1, as he beat the legit Champion of the time....in 1995 most people felt he lost to Axel Schulz, and then he dropped off the scene for a year in a half.....during that time Mike Tyson came along, and won 2 of the belts....at that time he would of became #1 over Foreman, who would become kind of like Zsolt Erdei, who has a lineal claim to the Light heavyweight title, but is not considered a champion or the best in the weight class.

As for the #1 being the ESB champ, and that being tracked....that will have to be talked about with the other people involved in the ranking.
Coolio that's good to hear

I've got an obsession with tracking number 1 fighter's across divisions, that's why I brought it up I've tracked the guy I feel was best suited to number in every division from the beginning of boxing; I was hoping other's out there shared my passion and were going to do the same thing here
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