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View Poll Results: Bigger career achievements
darius achieved more 16 48.48%
Ottke achieved more 10 30.30%
They more or less were on the same level 7 21.21%
Voters: 33. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 07-05-2007, 03:29 AM   #1
Flurry
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Default Darius and Ottke - compare their career achievements

Compare the career achievements of two of the leading German/German based fighters of the late 90s and early 00s, both long time title holders, both also unfied belts. Led on by rivalling stables these two, who btw had already fought each other in the amateur ranks, despite numerous public call outs never quite managed to clash with each other in a pro ring.

Who was the "greater fighter" of the two based on achievements?

Lets get this straight, this is not about who had more talent, the better potential or who who of the two would have won had they met in the ring. Its purely about their accomplishments
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Old 07-05-2007, 03:49 AM   #2
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Default Re: Darius and Ottke - compare their career achievements

Darius staying one of the best fighters of 1990-2000. His style was much better than Ottke.
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Old 07-05-2007, 06:11 AM   #3
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Default Re: Darius and Ottke - compare their career achievements

No question. Ottke achieved more.

Ottke did about 6 or 7 mandatory defences in his career and boxed every three month. Many of his opponents were first class (Brewer, Glen Johnson, Mundine, Larsen, Tate....)

Michalczewski boxed only two names in his entire career (Hill and Rocchigiani). The rest were almost only secondclass bums and he never had to fight in a mandatory defense.

We are not talking about entertaining fights we are talking about achievements.

So Ottke.
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Old 07-05-2007, 06:57 AM   #4
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Default Re: Darius and Ottke - compare their career achievements

Montell Griffin was a big win for DM as well. Ottkes first win was robbery and most neutral observers had Larsen winning as well. Other fights were close. Glen Johnson was not first class when he fought Ottke. It was first later in his career Johnson upped his level. It wasn't a big win.

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Old 07-05-2007, 10:13 AM   #5
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Default Re: Darius and Ottke - compare their career achievements

Ottke had too many dodgy decisions go his way to be considered a decent champion.
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Old 07-05-2007, 10:20 AM   #6
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Default Re: Darius and Ottke - compare their career achievements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jens S
Montell Griffin was a big win for DM as well. Ottkes first win was robbery and most neutral observers had Larsen winning as well. Other fights were close. Glen Johnson was not first class when he fought Ottke. It was first later in his career Johnson upped his level. It wasn't a big win.

Jens
so michalczewski won everything fairly?
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Old 07-05-2007, 11:59 AM   #7
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Default Re: Darius and Ottke - compare their career achievements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Batsch
No question. Ottke achieved more.

Ottke did about 6 or 7 mandatory defences in his career and boxed every three month. Many of his opponents were first class (Brewer, Glen Johnson, Mundine, Larsen, Tate....)

Michalczewski boxed only two names in his entire career (Hill and Rocchigiani). The rest were almost only secondclass bums and he never had to fight in a mandatory defense.

We are not talking about entertaining fights we are talking about achievements.

So Ottke.
Fair enough, I do not concur with all you said but good post nevertheless.

Just two minor additions, if you permit me to, DM at least fought two mandatories, though they werent top notch admittedly, in Armenta and Biarslanov. And his best wins apart from those you mentioned should imo also include Barber, whom he took the title from originally, Thadzi (who beat Toney) and Griffin (former wbc holder)
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Old 07-05-2007, 04:25 PM   #8
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Default Re: Darius and Ottke - compare their career achievements

Ottke gets no respect but the fact is that his resume is better.

Two wins over Brewer, two over Thomas Tate, Glen Johnson, Byron Mitchell, Anthony Mundine. Far better than what DM did.

Quote:
Ottke had too many dodgy decisions go his way to be considered a decent champion.
Everyone always says that, but what were they?? Outisde of Robin Reid, of course.
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Old 07-05-2007, 05:01 PM   #9
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Default Re: Darius and Ottke - compare their career achievements

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Originally Posted by emanuel_augustus
Ottke gets no respect but the fact is that his resume is better.

Two wins over Brewer, two over Thomas Tate, Glen Johnson, Byron Mitchell, Anthony Mundine. Far better than what DM did.



Everyone always says that, but what were they?? Outisde of Robin Reid, of course.
Brewer I and Reid - Larsen fight was close, but shouldn't be called a robbery...
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Old 07-05-2007, 11:49 PM   #10
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Default Re: Darius and Ottke - compare their career achievements

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Brewer I and Reid
Brewer I wasn't a robbery. Close fight, Brewer maybe by a point or two, but no robbery.
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Old 07-06-2007, 04:17 AM   #11
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Default Re: Darius and Ottke - compare their career achievements

I agree that the Reid fight was the only one Ottke should have lost, twas controversial mainly for the actions of the inept (and likely: corrupt) ref imo, the Brewer 1 and the Larsen fight were close fights, but no robberies. But we ve had these endless back and forth spins about robberies in the past and this thread really wasnt started to provide a playground for that sort of stuff.

This thread is meant to determine who of the two fighters in question had the bigger career achievements.
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Old 07-06-2007, 12:05 PM   #12
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Default Re: Darius and Ottke - compare their career achievements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Merry
Compare the career achievements of two of the leading German/German based fighters of the late 90s and early 00s, both long time title holders, both also unfied belts. Led on by rivalling stables these two, who btw had already fought each other in the amateur ranks, despite numerous public call outs never quite managed to clash with each other in a pro ring.

Who was the "greater fighter" of the two based on achievements?

Lets get this straight, this is not about who had more talent, the better potential or who who of the two would have won had they met in the ring. Its purely about their accomplishments
I am not really sure who achieved more in his pro career,but I for sure know who was the more exciting fighter of those two great boxers.
Well,lets put it this way.Very seldom did I hear the words "fun to watch" in connection with Ottke.
However,I often noticed that he could also have competed as a runner representing the German colours.He would have felt at home at 10,000 meters IMO.

Seriously,a pity that Roy Jones vs DM didnt come off! DM needed a great opponent to be a truly outstanding opponent.All in all I slightly tend to say that Ottke achieved more in his pro career,but wouldnt argue the toss about it.
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Old 07-06-2007, 12:54 PM   #13
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Default Re: Darius and Ottke - compare their career achievements

Quote:
I am not really sure who achieved more in his pro career,but I for sure know who was the more exciting fighter of those two great boxers.
Well,lets put it this way.Very seldom did I hear the words "fun to watch" in connection with Ottke.
However,I often noticed that he could also have competed as a runner representing the German colours.He would have felt at home at 10,000 meters IMO.
I don't know, I guess that depends on your definition of boxing. I was a fan of the technical brilliance of Ottke. He wasn't just a runner. Ottke could could uncannily judge distance, was always on balance and focused, and could avoid pretty much any punch. He would then find slight openings, come in and land a punch or a flurry, then clinch or move away just out of range.

Pretty? No. But effective, and it allowed him to defeat guys who were far more gifted physically than he was. His style was about negating his opponents advantages and maximizing his own.
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Old 07-06-2007, 01:32 PM   #14
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Default Re: Darius and Ottke - compare their career achievements

Ottke lost Brewer I with points. A clear robbery. Ottke did face some good fighters, but did he really beat them? Well, he got the decisions. DM beat Hill and Griffin. They were both better than anything Ottke ever faced. But both fought mostly mediocre opposition. Neither man belongs in the Hall of Fame.

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Old 07-06-2007, 02:25 PM   #15
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Default Re: Darius and Ottke - compare their career achievements

Quote:
Ottke lost Brewer I with points. A clear robbery. Ottke did face some good fighters, but did he really beat them?
Repeat: Ottke/Brewer I was NOT a robbery.

And if you're going to make statements, give examples.
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