Boxing  

Forum Home Boxing Forum European British Classic Aussie MMA Training
Go Back   Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > Classic Boxing Forum


Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 11-03-2012, 07:44 AM   #1
janitor
P4P King
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 21,075
vCash: 1000
Default Is KO% a reliable indicator of a fighters power?

I submit that it is almost meaningless.

I also feel that it is more directly correlated to a fighters level of opposition.

Bob Satterfield is generally regarded as being one of the hardest pound for pound punchers of all time, but he had a KO% of 44.3%. For contrast Chris Byrd who is universally regarded as a light puncher has a higher KO% at 46.81%, while Joe Calzaghe who has been plagued by hand problems for much of his career has a KO% of 69.57%.

If we rank these fighters by KO%, then the ranking correlates to the average quality of opposition they fought, but is clearly in reverse correlation to their power.
  • Joe Calzaghe 69.57%
  • Chris Byrd 46.81%
  • Bob Satterfield 44.30%
I submit this, in vain hope of laying this old chestnut to rest.
janitor is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 11-03-2012, 07:48 AM   #2
Ncc84
Contender
ESB Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 794
vCash: 160
Default Re: Is KO% a reliable indicator of a fighters power?

A high KO% would suggest the boxer has good power, but there will of course be exceptions.
Calzaghe's power was a lot better earlier in his career. I would say Calzaghe hits harder for a SMW than Byrd did for a heavyweight.
Ncc84 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 11-03-2012, 07:52 AM   #3
Boxed Ears
ESB #1 Name Changer!
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Pazinfowit, USA
Posts: 24,729
vCash: 26665
Default Re: Is KO% a reliable indicator of a fighters power?

It is the difference between proof and a piece of interpretable evidence, I think.
Boxed Ears is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 11-03-2012, 07:52 AM   #4
Ncc84
Contender
ESB Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 794
vCash: 160
Default Re: Is KO% a reliable indicator of a fighters power?

3 cherry picked examples as your sample isn't really sufficient to make your case.
Ncc84 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 11-03-2012, 07:59 AM   #5
Unforgiven
Undisputed Champion
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 12,568
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Is KO% a reliable indicator of a fighters power?

No.
But there are different definitions of "power". It doesn't matter how hard a fighter hits, if he's not winning fights with his hard punches you could say he's got no power.
Unforgiven is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 11-03-2012, 08:10 AM   #6
lufcrazy
requiescat in pace
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: England, Up North
Posts: 22,606
vCash: 330
Default Re: Is KO% a reliable indicator of a fighters power?

It isn't because a large portion of fights are early career builders in 4, 6 and 8 rounders. Gauging anything from distance fights this short is meaningless.
lufcrazy is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 11-03-2012, 08:14 AM   #7
janitor
P4P King
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 21,075
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Is KO% a reliable indicator of a fighters power?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ncc84 View Post
3 cherry picked examples as your sample isn't really sufficient to make your case.
It is sufficient to prove that the reality can be the polar opposite of what the KO% would suggest.

That in itself, is enough to undermine it as a theory.
janitor is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 11-03-2012, 08:16 AM   #8
Unforgiven
Undisputed Champion
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 12,568
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Is KO% a reliable indicator of a fighters power?

These days up-and-coming prospects are gifted so many stoppages it's impossible to compare with the days when they used to let the fighters fight.
Unforgiven is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 11-03-2012, 11:54 AM   #9
Surf-Bat
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 3,086
vCash: 500
Default Re: Is KO% a reliable indicator of a fighters power?

No.

Jimmy McLarnin is a prime example. He didn't have many KOs at all. But when you look at the names on his record the reason becomes very clear.

Having great power doesn't mean you have the ability to use it to maximum effect. You can have good power and not be a good finisher.

Everyone who saw or fought middleweight contender Oscar Rankins gave testimony to his crushing power. The fight reports reveal that he floored and hurt practically everybody he hit. He just wasn't that good at finishing them off once he had them hurt, so he has a low KO percentage. Same goes with former middleweight champion George Chip, a brutal puncher.

Oscar Bonavena had excellent power and his record shows many KOs. But if you look closely, it is revealed that once he begins fighting the upper echelon fighters in the division his KO percentage plummets. Off the top of my head I cannot think of a single top heavy that he stopped, even though he hurt and floored several of them. The Karl Mildenberger fight is a perfect example as to why I don't consider Bonavena to be a great puncher despite his great power. He floored and hurt the German so many times, but couldn't close the deal and stop him. He was a great finisher against fringe contenders and journeymen. But once into the upper ranks he showed an inability to get the job done.
Surf-Bat is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 11-03-2012, 12:00 PM   #10
edward morbius
Contender
ESB Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,110
vCash: 500
Default Re: Is KO% a reliable indicator of a fighters power?

Quote:
Originally Posted by janitor View Post
It is sufficient to prove that the reality can be the polar opposite of what the KO% would suggest.

That in itself, is enough to undermine it as a theory.
KO % per se might be meaningless,

but KO % against RATED opposition gives, I thiink, a good guage of power.
edward morbius is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 11-03-2012, 12:24 PM   #11
Shake
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 2,587
vCash: 75
Default Re: Is KO% a reliable indicator of a fighters power?

It is one ingredient in a stew that requires many. And not every stew is the same, as well!

It could be an indication of class. Fighting a lower level of opposition would certainly raise the K.O% of any fighter. In this case, the K.O% against top opposition could be scrutinized to determine if this is where the facts become apparant.

But Floyd Mayweather and Pernell Whitaker have outclassed opponents whom they did not K.O. They compete to win the fight convincingly, but don't look for the K.O when they have the advantage. This is a mental and tactical difference. Some fighters would be better off taking less chances, like Sergio Martinez vs Chavez recently came dangerously close to losing a match he had swept the first 11(!) rounds in. This would never happen to Whitaker and Mayweather. They fight with the philosophy that accomplishing the K.O win is not worth the risk it involves.

Some fighters, like Calzaghe, do not fight with this safety-first approach. Confident in their chin and recuperative abilities, they keep up aggression even when they could coast out the match. His lack of K.O wins against top opposition was not for lack of trying.

...I ran out of time! Old windbag that I am.

My point would have been that power is only one part of K.O%, and in varying degrees, next to delivery system, chin, aggression, finishing ability, etc. Some fighters possess a combination of these traits (for any one of them to be exceptionally high it becomes a weapon) that makes the K.O more attainable.
Shake is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 11-03-2012, 12:43 PM   #12
Ncc84
Contender
ESB Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 794
vCash: 160
Default Re: Is KO% a reliable indicator of a fighters power?

Quote:
Originally Posted by janitor View Post
It is sufficient to prove that the reality can be the polar opposite of what the KO% would suggest.

That in itself, is enough to undermine it as a theory.
It's not good enough to say 'Boxer A has a high KO% therefore he has exceptional power and Boxer B has a low % therefore he has poor power'

But that doesn't mean it should be disregarded entirely, it is still a good indicator of what someone's power should be.

Just picking three boxers like you did isn't enough to say it is nonsense. If you randomly select 100 boxers with high KO% and 100 with low, the high group will generally be the bigger punchers
Ncc84 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 11-03-2012, 12:56 PM   #13
janitor
P4P King
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 21,075
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Is KO% a reliable indicator of a fighters power?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ncc84 View Post
Just picking three boxers like you did isn't enough to say it is nonsense. If you randomly select 100 boxers with high KO% and 100 with low, the high group will generally be the bigger punchers
I would suggest that the high group are far more likely to be fighters with a lower percentage of fights against ranked opponents.

How many fighters with the highest KO%sfor their division can you honestly say had a high % of fights against ranked opponents?

There may be examples, but I am having a hard time finding them.
janitor is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 11-03-2012, 02:16 PM   #14
Ncc84
Contender
ESB Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 794
vCash: 160
Default Re: Is KO% a reliable indicator of a fighters power?

Quote:
Originally Posted by janitor View Post
I would suggest that the high group are far more likely to be fighters with a lower percentage of fights against ranked opponents.

How many fighters with the highest KO%sfor their division can you honestly say had a high % of fights against ranked opponents?

There may be examples, but I am having a hard time finding them.
Well of course, as a boxer is fighting better opponents their KO% will usually decrease.
So if you look at Abdusalamov who has 100%, and wlad 81%. The KO% is not a real indicator of their power because the level of their opponents is so different.
But it is useful to indicate which of two boxers at similar stages in their careers is the more powerful.

For example to compare Bryant Jennings to Abdusalamov, is a much more appropriate use, they have fought a similar level of opponents and one has a much higher %, so it would not be unfair to assume he has more power.
Ncc84 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 11-03-2012, 02:33 PM   #15
destruction
Contender
ESB Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,301
vCash: 75
Default Re: Is KO% a reliable indicator of a fighters power?

Not if they have been fed a diet of stiffs, or have a promoter who has paid their opponents to fall over it is not.

You need to judge level of competition alongside any fighters record to make an accurate assessment of their level, alongside of course watching them in action a number of times.

A high KO%, alongside a good level of competition, and you have a good indicator that the fighter carries some serious heat.
destruction is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Reply

Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > Classic Boxing Forum

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump





All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:25 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Boxing News 24 Forum 2013