The all things technical thread.

[almsn]

Originally Posted by dftaylor

Body punching is the single most under-utilised skill in boxing today.
It's the ultimate equaliser for fighters and here's why: it slows any fighter down, it does more long-term damage over the course of a fight, it's a god-send for lighter punchers and it sets up more offensive opportunities than any other individual punch style other than the jab.

I think it's been neglected for a couple of reasons. 1, it's leaves a fighter more open when on the attack, and 2, it isn't consistently rewarded in the amateur ranks. The second is valid, but the first is wrong when it's done right.

A good body puncher has two major targets - the solar-plexus and the ribcage. It is hard to get down the middle without getting clipped, but rib work is effective at all times. You can rip a left hook under the right cross, you can bring the right under a jab and both these shots discourage an opponent from throwing.

Also, it's ideal against defensive opponents since it forces them to bring the guard down. Perfect the hook to body then head combination and you have a major tool in your arsenal.

It's also ideal coming off a jab because that blinds the opponent and brings the hands up.
But it also requires good footwork to get on position, and since very few trainers impart that knowledge now, sweet body shots are becoming a thing of the past. Inside fighting relies on body work, but that's a dying art too.

I'll try and find some good clips and provide some comments.

[almsn]

http://gifsoup.com/imager.php?id=3303212&t=o GIFSoup

[slip&counter]

Stepping in and closing the distance with the jab.

http://gifsoup.com/view2/3333857/louis-jab-o.gif



Watch the feint and the same time jabbing plus the parrying of the jab. Almost everything in this sequence.
http://gifsoup.com/view2/3344951/louis-counter-1-o.gifGIFsoup.


Baiting and countering the jab. Also known as the bait 'n' snatch.

http://gifsoup.com/imager.php?id=3035335&t=oGIFsoup



Distraction with jab to the body then right hand.

http://www.gifsoup.com/imager.php?id=2596800&t=oGifsoup.

http://i43.tinypic.com/2e0mtd2.jpg

[slip&counter]

Originally Posted by DrMo

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

Tyson was great at using body punches in combinations to set up openings. Especially the right-hook to the body followed by a right uppercut.

Tyson is an interesting fighter to analyse. One of the myths about Tyson is that he was a good inside fighter because of his style and his height, which imo he wasn't that great an infighter. Someone like Joe Frazier was better in that department. Tyson allowed himself to be tied up when he was on the inside. Before he got free and went back to his bopping rhythm but it could be disrupted and he got worse as the fight went on. He couldn't fight very hard for very long. He's not the same fighter after four rounds no matter what part of his career one looks at. One of the reasons i think someone like Vitali Klitschko would beat him let alone someone like Ali. One thing about him though is he was brought along brilliently. People trying to develop young fighters should look at how Mike was brought along. They did a great job of building his confidence, developing his style and getting the PR going and the word out. Even sending tapes of his knockouts to networks and things of that nature.

[Flea Man]

Originally Posted by slip&counter

Tyson is an interesting fighter to analyse. One of the myths about Tyson is that he was a good inside fighter because of his style and his height, which imo he wasn't that great an infighter. Someone like Joe Frazier was better in that department. Tyson allowed himself to be tied up when he was on the inside. Before he got free and went back to his bopping rhythm but it could be disrupted and he got worse as the fight went on. He couldn't fight very hard for very long. He's not the same fighter after four rounds no matter what part of his career one looks at. One of the reasons i think someone like Vitali Klitschko would beat him let alone someone like Ali. One thing about him though is he was brought along brilliently. People trying to develop young fighters should look at how Mike was brought along. They did a great job of building his confidence, developing his style and getting the PR going and the word out. Even sending tapes of his knockouts to networks and things of that nature.

Agreed, he would languish on the inside until he could push his man back or was seperated. Operated exclusively in his own range, just inside mid-range, where he could leap in with punches or set up his short shots. Don't rate Vitali at all so, even on a styles-by-styles basis don't see him faring any better than Tucker, who, whilst less awkward, was better equipped for the task IMO. Vitali would make it ugly and go the distance, but I see Mike's superior handspeed and aesthetic application snatching the decision.

Luis Manuel Rodriguez also switched between body and head well.

SHIT! Not on youtube, I'll sort it out when I get back.

[slip&counter]

For body to head combinations it really gets no better than Ray Robinson. I've seen him hit guys almost under the armpits and them turning away in extreme agony holding their lower backs. My goodness. That's before he even finished the combination and went upstairs...

[Flea Man]

With Robbo, he's such an obvious choice he's often overlooked!

[Spearmint Rhino]

Agree about the body punching.

You rarely see fighters using it to wear an opponent down.... playing the long term game.

I suppose it's because many fighters are front runners, so they're desperate to get the early rounds in the bank and aren't prepared to potentially lose a couple in order to do some early damage.

A fighter like Rendall Munroe relies on his body attack to win fights. If he'd not whacked away at the body relentlessly he'd have lost a wide decision to Terrazas for sure.

Plenty of more skilled operators could learn a thing or two from this.....

[Flea Man]

And he doesn't dealt even have all that great punching technique.

When I get back home to my laptop I'll do summat on the wonders of Kalambay.

[slip&counter]

Kalambay would be brillient to breakdown technically.

It's almost an insult to leave Robinson out of certain topics, Flea. i.e combination punching to body and head, short right hand, footwork etc. People sometimes don't say him because they'll think it's too obvious, you're right.

[Flea Man]

I'm guilty of it myself! Then I think 'shit, this man is better at everything than all the guys we've been discussing'

[Jdsm]

Originally Posted by SkillspayBills

I love JMM's angles, he uses angles beautifully with a slip here and a dip there. I always look at his lead hand the way he sights his opponent with it. Sorta like he's fencing and picking off the opponents advances.

Donaire messing around the other day in media workout did a bit of JMM and he made light of it.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ppXov9Dqwmk[/ame]

29 minutes in, Ricardo Lopez perfectly executes the punch that we see so often from Juan Manuel Marquez.

The way he slips to the outside of the southpaw jab gives the southpaw no real way to follow up with anything, the bend in the lead leg that was used to slip the punch is now the perfect way to generate more power for the shot. He then comes up through the opening and boom, KO.

[slip&counter]

@Flea. So true.

One of the best technical and most scary punches i've seen thrown was the short right hand Ray landed on Graziano. It knocked Graziano's mouthpiece about 11 feet in the air and you can literally see him kicking and flicking his own leg to get the feeling back. That's what happens when the brain suffers trauma and oxygen doesn't flow properly to the extremities and there's a loss of sensation. Sorry for being so graphic those having breakie.

And that wasn't probably the best punch in his arsenal. That's probably his left hook. No wonder he killed a dude with it.

[Spearmint Rhino]

Originally Posted by Jdsm

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

29 minutes in, Ricardo Lopez perfectly executes the punch that we see so often from Juan Manuel Marquez.

The way he slips to the outside of the southpaw jab gives the southpaw no real way to follow up with anything, the bend in the lead leg that was used to slip the punch is now the perfect way to generate more power for the shot. He then comes up through the opening and boom, KO.

I've watched a few bits of that clip.... he's almost a cross between the two Marquez brothers.

He's got Rafa's kind of stance and the habit of flicking out the jab, and then JM's subtle nuances and offensive variety.

Textbook stuff.

[slip&counter]

Yeah, BB. Finito is technical perfection. JM Marquez with power in both hands and better defense. Same trainer.