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Old 02-11-2012, 04:23 PM   #331
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Default Re: The all things technical thread.

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Originally Posted by slip&counter View Post
Yep. Technically Wlad is a pretty refined for his style. He's just not a natural fighter like Vitali is and that's what hurts him. He use to have a lot of anxiety and Steward done a lot of work with him in trying to get him comfortable in the ring. Wlad is just not big, that's not the only thing that gives him the advantage. A lot of fighters are big and there have been many super heavyweights who haven't dominated. But Wlad combines size with good technical ability and that's what makes him difficult to beat, especially now he's comfortable in the ring and the panickness has pretty much been eradicated, although the trait is still somewhat there. It can come back if the right opponent takes him to certain spots. But for the most part the Wlad of before and the current version is apples and oranges.

Wlad controls distance very well. He doesn't need to land his jab to be effective. Many fighters who are jabbers and jab orientated have to find you with that initial one to get their game started, but not with Wlad. He can paw with his jab and just needs to create space and change/control distance.

One thing Wlad does so well is he throws a nice jab, left hook. He'll jab and jab and then throw the occassional right hand. This makes the opponent think he's figured out and is comfortable with the punching pattern and then Wlad will very sneakily bring the left hook into play when they're assuming he'll throw a right hand.

He also does a wonderful job of throwing different types of jabs.
Pretty much just took a lot of what I was about to put in my next post

The way he extends the glove and controls range is fantastic. The movement of the extended glove and the bizarre feints (Vitali is also a master of them) works great.
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Old 02-11-2012, 04:34 PM   #332
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Default Re: The all things technical thread.

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Pretty much just took a lot of what I was about to put in my next post

The way he extends the glove and controls range is fantastic. The movement of the extended glove and the bizarre feints (Vitali is also a master of them) works great.
I think even though Wlad is better technically in a lot of ways. What Vitali does better is he gives you a turn and a different look. Wlad tends to go in straighter lines, while Vitali stands off centre. He also fights tall extremely well and is very awkward which makes him hard to find. Along with being tougher and MUCH stronger on the inside and mentally. I'm a fan of both brothers.
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Old 02-11-2012, 04:49 PM   #333
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Default Re: The all things technical thread.

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check out the technique on the left hook 0:48

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[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GR-kuFNSXrA[/ame]



And for left hooks to the body check out Ruben Olivares.
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Old 02-11-2012, 06:48 PM   #334
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Default Re: The all things technical thread.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBBiQx8bMDU[/ame]


I've watched as much footage of Ray Robinson training as possible and i always notice how simple his training routines were. Nothing convoluted or complex. He thrived on the basics and then doing his calisthetics. Notice how much he's working the bags in his workouts and he never used pads. Oh and no one jumped rope like he did. He even works his pivots and turning on the toes when he was skipping.

Last edited by slip&counter; 02-12-2012 at 03:14 AM.
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Old 02-12-2012, 02:49 AM   #335
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Default Re: The all things technical thread.

Pads didn't exist that's why dude
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Old 02-12-2012, 03:41 AM   #336
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Default Re: The all things technical thread.

There is the argument that if they'd been available then they would've used them, but many old school trainers and fighters were not fans of using them even when they became available. They believed it had limited teaching potential and didn't encourage a fighter to be imaginative and instinctive. They can be a bit smoke and mirrors if the trainer doesn't know what to look out for and correct. Some people can look great on the pads when in fact it's not really doing much for them.

Pads have their place, they're very important and everyone should do them. But they should be a supplement and not a substitute. I think overusing the pads is not good and it does encourage some flaws like poor punching technique, pitter patter punching etc. Much of the stuff you get from the pads you'll get the same and more from working the variety of bags, plus you'll develope your power. Some trainers don't get their fighters to follow through the target with pads for example. Manny Steward is the one who probabily uses it the best, no wonder he has a reputation for working with punchers. He's another trainer who isn't THAT big a fan of the pads if they're not used in a certain way. Nacho Beristein is another great trainer who doesn't particularly like them. Think of some of the things his fighters are known for...

The pads/mitts are great. But just think about this. They're meant to get you improving things like your combination punching, right? Well the greatest combination punchers in the history of the game NEVER used them. That's not an argument for ditching the pads, but it's at least some food for thought i think.

Last edited by slip&counter; 02-12-2012 at 05:22 AM.
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Old 02-12-2012, 05:10 AM   #337
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Default Re: The all things technical thread.

I think pads are essential if being used properly and would improve any boxer of being used properly. they encourage better technique and a good pad holder gets instant feedback about how hard hisd man is punching.
padwork should be about repition of certain combos imo until they arebeing done perfectly. eg 1 round of just one or two combinations which link together nicely.
a good padman will also replicate a fight by actually thrwoing punches with the pads on like someone would in sparring and then the boxer has to deal with them eg slip or parry and then counter.
i woulkd also like the padman to constantly have a body bag on and then the boxer can finish his combos with bodyshots too to encourage the natural throw of body shots as and when he likes.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xx7rRBZW9Io&feature=related[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEV6UvBxQhI&feature=related[/ame]

some good examples of the sprt opf padwork im talking about.
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Old 02-12-2012, 05:19 AM   #338
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Default Re: The all things technical thread.

Great thread.
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Old 02-12-2012, 05:20 AM   #339
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Default Re: The all things technical thread.

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Great thread.


Spit some of that knowledge, Lunny.
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Old 02-12-2012, 05:24 AM   #340
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Default Re: The all things technical thread.

I'm very much of the opinion that pads do not encourage punching through the target. Coupled with efficiently made, 'safe' 8oz gloves and less proficient trainers, probably add up to why their aren't many 'punchers' nowadays.
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Old 02-12-2012, 05:32 AM   #341
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Default Re: The all things technical thread.

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I'm very much of the opinion that pads do not encourage punching through the target. Coupled with efficiently made, 'safe' 8oz gloves and less proficient trainers, probably add up to why their aren't many 'punchers' nowadays.
too many trainers really slap the pads into the boxers glove which mistakenly gives the imptression they are punching harder than they are. if the oads are held relatively static then in encourages more punching 'through' the pad. imo of course
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Old 02-12-2012, 05:35 AM   #342
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Default Re: The all things technical thread.

No that's a great point and corresponds with what Slip was saying about Manny's 'proper' use of them
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Old 02-12-2012, 05:38 AM   #343
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Default Re: The all things technical thread.

Pads are so helpful if you get a good pad man.
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Old 02-12-2012, 05:43 AM   #344
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Default Re: The all things technical thread.

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Originally Posted by norfolkinchance View Post
I think pads are essential if being used properly and would improve any boxer of being used properly. they encourage better technique and a good pad holder gets instant feedback about how hard hisd man is punching.
padwork should be about repition of certain combos imo until they arebeing done perfectly. eg 1 round of just one or two combinations which link together nicely.
a good padman will also replicate a fight by actually thrwoing punches with the pads on like someone would in sparring and then the boxer has to deal with them eg slip or parry and then counter.
i woulkd also like the padman to constantly have a body bag on and then the boxer can finish his combos with bodyshots too to encourage the natural throw of body shots as and when he likes.

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some good examples of the sprt opf padwork im talking about.

'If used properly' being the operative words i think. You only have to see what Roach has done with Pacquaio on the mitts to realise how effective they can be. Getting him to spin out properly etc. But i think a lot of trainers play patta with pads. They don't know how to get the best out of it.

I like the freestyle approach to padwork, where the trainer lets the fighter throw the punches HE wants. Not what he's instructed to throw. That can make the fighter a little robotic. The other way encourages the fighter to THINK and not just be reactive but be proactive.

Padwork can be a little like microwave popcorn. They're portable and trainers can be a little lazy in just getting them out neglecting other things.

I don't wanna sound like i'm against using the pads. But it's interesting that there's never been a time when they've been used as much as they are now, and there has never been a time when technical refinement, combination punching and knockout punchers have been at such a premium.
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Old 02-12-2012, 05:45 AM   #345
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Default Re: The all things technical thread.

I think you're more bothered about hitting the mitt than you are about actually trying to punch properly.

Take part in or watch any boxercise class and that's obvious.
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