Boxing  

Forum Home Boxing Forum European British Classic Aussie MMA Training
Go Back   Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > British Boxing Forum


Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 03-07-2012, 08:05 AM   #871
slip&counter
Gimme some X's and O's
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: In that 3 feet of stew again...
Posts: 12,448
vCash: 1000
Default Re: The all things technical thread.

Just watching Timmy Bradley closely. Something i see has but some serious doubt in my mind about him beating Pacquaio. Bradley is fast but there's different types of speed. I think Bradley has one shot speed, but Pacquaio has volume speed. Bradley doesn't have speed and timing in volume. Bradley is fast for one shot, he may even match Pacquiao for one shot speed, but the problem is Manny is ganna start extending the exchanges and Bradley might not be able to keep up.

In other words, Pacquaio has speed endurance with his punches whilst Timmy doesn't. This is ganna be his biggest problem i think. It's like someone being very good at running the 100 meters dash taking part in a 400 meters race. For the first 100 meters he's ganna compete, but after that he won't be able to keep up because he doesn't have the speed endurance to do so. That will be the difference between their punches. And i'm not sure his timing and precision is special enough to negate it either. Plus Pacquaio places his punches really well from different angles. There's a couple of other things that have me questioning my pick of Bradley aswell.
slip&counter is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 03-07-2012, 09:32 AM   #872
Boro chris
Champion
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: I'm not Jesus Christ. I've come to accept that now.
Posts: 5,142
vCash: 1000
Default Re: The all things technical thread.

^
Do you think Pac will be able to put Bradley into a shell for any extended period of time (Like Clottey) or will Bradley try to punch with him?
Boro chris is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2012, 09:39 AM   #873
slip&counter
Gimme some X's and O's
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: In that 3 feet of stew again...
Posts: 12,448
vCash: 1000
Default Re: The all things technical thread.

That's the thing. I think Bradley CAN punch with him. And he'll definitely try and get shot's inbetween Pacquaio's but i'm not sure he can win enough extended exchanges. But i'm still going out on a limb and picking him to win don't get me wrong. He has to fight a perfect fight though and his whiskers have to hold up.

You see everything that's good and bad about Tim Bradley in this gif here. Baiting and snatching. Working in the clinch and on the inside. Getting too reckless on the front foot.

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

Last edited by slip&counter; 03-07-2012 at 09:57 AM.
slip&counter is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2012, 12:06 PM   #874
slip&counter
Gimme some X's and O's
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: In that 3 feet of stew again...
Posts: 12,448
vCash: 1000
Default Re: The all things technical thread.

Tim must not follow Manny around. That's my fear. He has to be disciplined.

Look how he gets reckless on the offensive in the below gif and we've seen him almost pay for it against Kendal Holt. And it's easier to make him miss. If he does this Manny will tear him to pieces. Pacquaio gives you the impressive that you can walk to him but then surprises you with a coup de main attack. Especially that check right hook he's developed. Everyone who's followed him around has been taken apart. Look at his history.

[IMG][Only registered and activated users can see links. ] [Only registered and activated users can see links. ][/IMG]


I want him to be patient and draw Pacquaio in. Bring him into no mans land and then counter punch. Bradley has the ability to do that. Especially with the right hand. Take a step back or roll away, create that space. Make him fall short, counter then pivot.

[IMG][Only registered and activated users can see links. ] [Only registered and activated users can see links. ][/IMG]


He falls short with that second right hand. But catches him with it beautifully in the very next round. You can see how he can roll with a punch at short range and make you pay.

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]


Something that Bradley has to look out for his he sometimes paws with the jab trying to draw the opponents lead. He has to becareful not to get caught with the straight left when he does that. It will be easier for Pacquaio if Timmy leaves his lead out there. Sometimes when Pacquaio comes in you can dispense with the jab and counter with a power punch.

Pacquaio left hand down the pipe is very hard to read. He feints well, sets it up, dips to his right and then quickly releases his straight left shot. He's hit pretty much EVERYONE he's fought with this shot and Bradley really has to try and somehow limit the amount of times he's hit with this shot. The secret will be to quickly circle and pivot to his left and make Pacquaio fall short with it and get him overextending.

I would also advise team Bradley to not give away much in interviews and training sessions that are being filmed. And specially 24/7. Mosley gave away his strategy on that show. I've seen many fighters do it. Team Bradley are a bunch of nice guys they need to learn to say no to the media and that camera crew in the lead up to this fight.

Learn from Mayweather, Timmy. He NEVER gives anything away on those shows and once the cameras start rolling. I've seen him doing stuff like putting duck tape on the heavy bag when he's working it on camera. I think it was before the Mosley or Ortiz fights. He was clearly going to try and put some hurt on them. But he didn't wanna give that away so he put tape on the bag to hide the fact that he was working his power. Floyd's training is different depending on his strategy. When he's intending on trying to settle down and put some hurt on the opponent and press the fight he works the heaviest bag there is MUCH more. Look how different his training was for the De la Hoya fight. I don't think many people picked this up because he put tape on the bag.

This gave them the impression that he was just using a bag that was old and worn out, but that bag he was using on 24/7 was a brand new 200lbs and more bag, trust me.

Last edited by slip&counter; 03-07-2012 at 09:28 PM.
slip&counter is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2012, 06:08 PM   #875
norfolkinchance
Contender
ESB Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 561
vCash: 1000
Default Re: The all things technical thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by slip&counter View Post
The reason i think most top fighters don't make great trainers is one because of obvious things like not having the patience etc. But i think the biggest thing is. Most special fighters if you asked them what they do that makes them special they wouldn't be able to explain it to you. It's weird. Maybe it's because they're so subtle and instinctive.
not all. for example eubank said there were other far more talenterd people than him in the gym. but he trained and trained intelligently and look who did more in the ring. tsyzu said something similar too. far more good fighters in his gym than him but he persevered.

i think most fightwers have a story of omeone better than them who didnt have the dedication

hopkins defo be a great trainer tho
norfolkinchance is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2012, 06:35 PM   #876
slip&counter
Gimme some X's and O's
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: In that 3 feet of stew again...
Posts: 12,448
vCash: 1000
Default Re: The all things technical thread.

The X's and O's of Lucian Bute.

Strengths.

- Sneaky punching: Bute punches VERY sneaky. He makes it hard for you to read his attack. He has a coup de main attack. Especially with his money punches. He keeps them short and sharp.

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]


- The vicious uppercut to body and head: His sneaky punching is most characterised in his uppercut. It's one of the best punches right now in boxing. This is a real weapon for a southpaw historically. Laying back and then catching you coming in with this shot and Bute throws it as good as ANYONE i've seen. It's a real beauty. He has marmalised fighters with this shot. It's devastating to body and head because it comes from underneath and has real purchase and power. He paws with his jab, brings you in and BOOM!

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]


[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]


[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]


- A certain degree of slickness. With his southpaw style, he's fluid, has nuances and subtleties like anticipation and can make you pay if you miss.


- Good footwork. He gets himself in good position. Has good foot placement. Can circle effectively and fight on the back foot or the front.

Watch the movement with his feet and the way he pivots to the side.

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]





- He has and keeps his bearings on the inside. He also does a very good 'hip clinch'. Not the same as someone like Hopkins or Ward. Although we have to take into account the level of comp that he's been displaying that against. Showcase fights which he has handled as they should be handled to be fair. Putting almost all of them in the trunk.

Weaknesses.

- Not the best Chin. There have been question marks over his whiskers. He has been stopped heavily in the ams and we all saw what Andrade was able to do to him. A step up in comp will answer this question for us. Through his defence is good enough for it not to be a massive problem though only time will tell. He improved since that Andrade fight it would seem.

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]


- He's not hard to disarm if you have the tools. He may struggle against certain styles at the top level against the likes of Ward who will attempt to disarm him. What i mean by that is someone who understand how to maul him and invade his space. The good thing is he has the sneaky punches to make you pay on the inside. But it'll be interesting to see him against someone who disarms him but doesn't get hit by his sneaky shots. It's also interesting to see how he can cope with someone who has length on him, can jab WITH him when he's pawing with it and can counter his lead.

- He fights too much on his front foot. What i mean by that is he puts too much weight on his lead leg at times. Bute is tall but he will bend over on the front foot looking for his money punches. This is a bad habit because he can be put off balance and if you can counter his counters. He can also be taken out of position if someone moves the other way. Doesn't come square on like he wants you to and goes more towards his right shoulder and then shots a right hand at him. I think he can he touched with a right hand. His own right hand is not as developed and dangerous so it can be taken away.

- Level of competition: We just don't for sure how good he is. He hasn't really fought anyone who can take advantage of his weaknesses. We don't know how well he'll hold up against the top guys in the division. But he's done what he's had to do so far.

Last edited by slip&counter; 08-02-2012 at 08:09 PM.
slip&counter is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2012, 07:06 PM   #877
slip&counter
Gimme some X's and O's
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: In that 3 feet of stew again...
Posts: 12,448
vCash: 1000
Default Re: The all things technical thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by norfolkinchance View Post
not all. for example eubank said there were other far more talenterd people than him in the gym. but he trained and trained intelligently and look who did more in the ring. tsyzu said something similar too. far more good fighters in his gym than him but he persevered.

i think most fightwers have a story of omeone better than them who didnt have the dedication

hopkins defo be a great trainer tho
I think you slightly misunderstood. What i meant was. Some great fighters have such incredible nuances and they're so instinctive that if you asked them why they were so special. Even they couldn't explain it to you. That's one of the reasons they struggle to train fighters who can't do what they were able to so instinctively. Also some of them can't teach and pass on what made them do what they were able to do. It's all about that communication when training someone.

You're right, i think Hopkins would make a great trainer. He's one who could explain EVERYTHING he does. Although i don't think he would have the patience to start from the bottom with fighters and get to that day to day grind training a young kid. After he's been in the game so long and had so much success at the top, he may struggle to play that role and i think he's said as much. Maybe a technical advisor role would suit him best.
slip&counter is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2012, 07:12 PM   #878
WalletInspector
Undisputed Champion
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Team Wales HQ, West Yorkshire
Posts: 10,443
vCash: 75
Default Re: The all things technical thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by slip&counter View Post
You're right, i think Hopkins would make a great trainer. He's one who could explain EVERYTHING he does. Although i don't think he would have the patience to start from the bottom with fighters and get to that day to day grind training a young kid. After he's been in the game so long and had so much success at the top, he may struggle to play that role and i think he's said as much. Maybe a technical advisor role would suit him best.
He has...


[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xT4bK4Xwovc[/ame]
WalletInspector is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2012, 07:22 PM   #879
slip&counter
Gimme some X's and O's
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: In that 3 feet of stew again...
Posts: 12,448
vCash: 1000
Default Re: The all things technical thread.

Cheers, Wallet.
slip&counter is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2012, 06:10 AM   #880
DrMo
Team GB
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 10,943
vCash: 122
Default Re: The all things technical thread.

Mike McCallum; Xs & Os

Strengths

Combination punching: Mike had the full arsenal of punches & threw them all with authority, hook & uppercuts with both hands upstairs & downstairs. He could also mix up the power & speed in his combos very well.

Mid range & close range: Mike was excellent in close & especially good at landing thunderous body shots. He had good head movement & was technically excellent, he could make you miss & make you pay.

Chin: Mike was a genuinely iron-chinned warrior, rarely wobbled & when he was hurt he usually came firing back & was cool under pressure. Mike was so confident in his chin he could take risks in exchanges & was prepared to take one to land one.

Weaknesses

Flat footed: Mike was a bit of a plodder & was very rarely on the balls of his feet. This caused him problems against good footwork (see the 1st Kalambay fight) & good upper-body movement (see the Toney fights)

Defense at range: Mike generally kept his left hand low & didnt possess the quickest of relexes. He struggled against guys with good speed & a good jab (ie McCrory & Curry) until he could slow them down with his body attack.

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ] [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lBRqHA6DGxw[/ame]

Last edited by DrMo; 03-08-2012 at 08:16 AM.
DrMo is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2012, 06:49 AM   #881
mishima
Contender
ESB Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 1,128
vCash: 500
Default Re: The all things technical thread.

So Slip are you now favoring Pacman in the Bradley fight?
mishima is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2012, 07:49 AM   #882
slip&counter
Gimme some X's and O's
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: In that 3 feet of stew again...
Posts: 12,448
vCash: 1000
Default Re: The all things technical thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mishima View Post
So Slip are you now favoring Pacman in the Bradley fight?
I'd make Manny the favourite. But i'm still going out on that limb and picking Timmy to pull it off. I see a lot of Holyfield in Tim. So much is ganna depend on how well he can take Pacquaio's power punches. Manny is a vicious sharpshooter.
slip&counter is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2012, 10:48 AM   #883
Gooners2
Archie Solis
ESB Full Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 470
vCash: 500
Default Re: The all things technical thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by slip&counter View Post
Just watching Timmy Bradley closely. Something i see has but some serious doubt in my mind about him beating Pacquaio. Bradley is fast but there's different types of speed. I think Bradley has one shot speed, but Pacquaio has volume speed. Bradley doesn't have speed and timing in volume. Bradley is fast for one shot, he may even match Pacquiao for one shot speed, but the problem is Manny is ganna start extending the exchanges and Bradley might not be able to keep up.

In other words, Pacquaio has speed endurance with his punches whilst Timmy doesn't. This is ganna be his biggest problem i think. It's like someone being very good at running the 100 meters dash taking part in a 400 meters race. For the first 100 meters he's ganna compete, but after that he won't be able to keep up because he doesn't have the speed endurance to do so. That will be the difference between their punches. And i'm not sure his timing and precision is special enough to negate it either. Plus Pacquaio places his punches really well from different angles. There's a couple of other things that have me questioning my pick of Bradley aswell.
Pacquiao just appears quicker cause he throws combinations imo. I believe Kendal Holt to be one of the top 5 fastest fighters in Boxing, but he only throws singles so his speed doesn't get as much notoriety. For singly shot speed he's extremely quick though imo. You make a mistake he's there like lightening with his left hook counter(Bradley, Julio Diaz).

I believe Manny will have to keep Bradley still for long enough to unload his 3/4's. Bradley has good upperbodymovement to, so I imagine that will also make it difficult for Manny to connect. However when all said and done I just think Bradley being a more complete fighter will be the difference. Bradley isn't necessarily a better fighter though imo.

Manny's offense is too one dimensional imo. Where as Bradley is multi dimensional. He doesn't have to regiment himself to one specific game plan in order to be effective. He can Box, he can fight, he can fight inside, he can fight outside, he's quick, possibly has more power than I think people are giving him credit for, so I think he will pose many problems for Manny. Cotto was able to counter punch Manny coming in, in spells. The only reason Manny got back into that fight imo, is because Cotto has such a poor defense, he couldn't take away Manny's target area. Bradley has a better defense than Cotto though imo.

I would say to blunt Manny's offense you cant afford just to bang it out with him, but you do need to hold your ground in spells imo, otherwise he will gain the momentum with his aggression. Luckily for Bradley he is more of a Boxer/fighter to where by he can do enough Boxing and counter punching on the outside, but can hold his feet and break Manny's momentum of aggression up if he does start turning up the heat.

Bradley can mix up his game where as I dont think Manny can if what he does isn't working.

Bradley doesn't have to be able to hurt Manny to gain his respect to stop him coming, he just has to throw combinations and hold his feet occasionally to keep him playing defense and break up his rhythm/momentum.
Gooners2 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2012, 11:37 AM   #884
slip&counter
Gimme some X's and O's
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: In that 3 feet of stew again...
Posts: 12,448
vCash: 1000
Default Re: The all things technical thread.

You joining me on that limb and picking Timmy to pull it off aswell, Gooners?
slip&counter is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2012, 11:58 AM   #885
Boro chris
Champion
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: I'm not Jesus Christ. I've come to accept that now.
Posts: 5,142
vCash: 1000
Default Re: The all things technical thread.

With regards to a potential Ward/Bute match in the future, does anyone feel that trying to maul/fight on the inside with Bute is a rather risky tactic for Ward?
That left uppercut looks very difficult to defend against whilst trying to close the distance.
I genuinely think its the most intriguing potential fight in boxing at the moment.
Boro chris is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Reply

Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > British Boxing Forum

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump





All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:22 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Boxing News 24 Forum 2013