The all things technical thread.

[slip&counter]

Everyone gets caught up in today’s technology and showy muscles. Whenever someone brings this up, I always come back to this point and ask why is it that fighters today get tired quicker. Nobody has been able to answer me this question. Apart from someone saying "Old school fighters opponents punched like females." LOL!

Why is it they get tired quicker, But yet they only fight 12 round fights, they fight in bigger gloves, so there is less wear and tear. They fight less often so they get much more time to peak out physically and they weigh in the day before so they have all the time you would want to replenish properly.

The fighters of yesteryear had stamina that was twice as good. Today if you fight at a fast, assertive pace for 12 rounds, people accuse you of being on PEDs. But yet guys routinely fought like that. See Tony Canzoneri, Barney Ross, Henry Armstrong, Beau Jack, Ike Williams, Fighting Harada, Aaron Pryor, Roberto Duran the list goes on. Watch each one of those guys and you will see a frenetic, hellacious pace. If they fought today no one would fight them.

[SkillspayBills]

The problem with S&C work is some fighters IMO hire people who don't understand boxing and what's needed. They plan and do all the things they'd think work for a fighter but they don't.

When a trainer gets it right and caters to the individual fighter and his needs then S&C work has it's place. Same with nutrition i suppose...

I do always wonder how the inclusion of tactics and video footage has effected our sport in a positive and negative. Many fights now come down to plans and small details and it must be mentally tiring with all the information taken on board and having to carry it out in fight.

My last point, do fighters train with enough intensity?. I mean i get impression AM's do more intense sessions due to it being just a two hour slot. I've trained in gym with pro's and they messed about and had to be shouted at to warm up properly. I remember having to do a 2mile run followed by 6x3 skipping then 3x3 shadow and then some bag work and maybe 2x3 pads and bit of sparring and circuit to end session.

[Spearmint Rhino]

S&C focuses on general fitness, rather than ''task specific'' fitness.

A person who runs three miles a day will get themselves reasonably fit fairly quickly, but they still won't be a world beater over 100 or 200m.

Despite being built like a tank I was always in the top 3 over those distances at school, yet people who had a lower fitness level than me regularly whipped me over the 1500m.

One obvious issue is that fighters might have a month or two off before going back in the gym, rather than just a week or two. Even if those two ''bonus'' weeks are spent in the pool just doing a bit of light training - or working on a few drills.... it's all money in the bank without working too hard.

[slip&counter]

Good points, fellas. I also think that fighters of yesteryear were more 'boxing fit' and not just 'fit'. There's a massive difference between boxing fitness and strength and regular fitness. It's why James Toney can be overweight but still have better stamina then someone who looks in better shape.

And i will always maintain that boxing technique and performance hasn't evolved from around the 20's and 30's like other sports, because it deals so much in skill and hand eye coordination.

[slip&counter]

Quick X's and O's of Joe Calzaghe.

Strengths.

- Adaptability and ability to adjust.

- Good jab.

- Subtle footwork to get himself into good positions. Although at times when he got overeager it did suffer.

- Ability to fight inside.

- Underrated physical strength.

- Ability to mix offense and defense simultaneously.

- Volume punching.

- Awkward style that he mastered which was hard to deal with.

- Positive body rhythm.

- Very good whiskers.

Weaknesses.

- Could be dragged into the wrong fight. Which caused him to get sloppy at times.

- Poor punching technique. In apart due to hand problems which affected his power.

- Lack of confidence.

- Sometimes open to certain counter punches. Especially the right hand counter.

[SkillspayBills]

Nice to see Barry thinks like us...
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5WjZ-aMs6a8[/ame]

[slip&counter]

Barry is a class act. I hope Lamont can do it again.

[mishima]

Originally Posted by slip&counter

Everyone gets caught up in today’s technology and showy muscles. Whenever someone brings this up, I always come back to this point and ask why is it that fighters today get tired quicker. Nobody has been able to answer me this question. Apart from someone saying "Old school fighters opponents punched like females." LOL!

Why is it they get tired quicker, But yet they only fight 12 round fights, they fight in bigger gloves, so there is less wear and tear. They fight less often so they get much more time to peak out physically and they weigh in the day before so they have all the time you would want to replenish properly.

The fighters of yesteryear had stamina that was twice as good. Today if you fight at a fast, assertive pace for 12 rounds, people accuse you of being on PEDs. But yet guys routinely fought like that. See Tony Canzoneri, Barney Ross, Henry Armstrong, Beau Jack, Ike Williams, Fighting Harada, Aaron Pryor, Roberto Duran the list goes on. Watch each one of those guys and you will see a frenetic, hellacious pace. If they fought today no one would fight them.

Fighters of today are not matched tough and frequently compared to the old school fighters. You had to be tough to be fighting so often otherwise you wouldn't have lasted.
Now, would these fighters have better conditioning if they changed their excessive long slow distance running to intervals etc?

[Flea Man]

Silly question. A better one would be 'why do modern fighters run in intervals if it doesn't help your stamina?'

No reason to question the old timers methods. The proof is in the film, they were better fighters.

[Flea Man]

Originally Posted by AndrewFFC

Picking up on an old point here but this is unfair and one eyed look at modern strength and conditioning. You have also not really factored in that this is a Tyson that by that point had very much fallen out of love with the sport.

If your looking at a bastion or example of modern strength and conditioning then there is no better case than Alex Ariza. In that case it is a wise thing to look at how Khans condition was pretty much the only thing that ket him going during a prolonged beatdown from Maidana

Marquez recently took aboard a new school s&c guy and he wasnt exactly doing badly down the home straight

Then there Bernard Hopkins who DOES lift weights

In fact I think your Jones example is ropey as hell anyway because with Mackie Shilton, Jones did a lot of weights, strength etc to bulk up for Ruiz and he was in superb shape

In Jones and Tyson's peak they didn't. And they still look/perform better than any of these modern types.

[Flea Man]

Mishima is obviously the same guy that has an agenda from here before, Izmat or whatever.

[norfolkinchance]

I think the real reason the old timers were fitter and more conditioned was because they fought a lot more. and probably sparred a lot more too.

if you were fighting every week in the amateurs that would build your stamina up loads more than just training. then moving to fighting as a pro every couple of weeks or so. this to supplement your training would do wonders.

like 11 a side football. i have done no exercise during the season and been unfit at the start. come end of season I am running hard for 90 mins. you get fit doing your specific sport.

[DanielJFiasco]

Has anybody read this article about Manny Pacquiao's bizaarely huge wrists (seriously!) and the effects of large bones on stamina ? I found the stuff about red blood cells and bone marrow fascinating, and it's something people never mention in regards to fitness levels.

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

[Black2023]

Larry Holmes - G. Foreman

Breakdown

[Black2023]

Originally Posted by Flea Man

Silly question. A better one would be 'why do modern fighters run in intervals if it doesn't help your stamina?'

No reason to question the old timers methods. The proof is in the film, they were better fighters.

Interval running is obviously better its just the application.


Sprinting as fast as you can for 3 minutes, with a 1 min rest....or doing 10 second sprints, 10 second walks would all be better than a long 1 hour jog.


The reason reason is probably the old timers actually did it whereas you can just see some modern heavies not bothering. Crap training methods is better than no training I guess.


If Chisora had top level fitness, he could well have beaten Vitali the night they fought, along with a tweak in technical methods aswell.