Boxing  

Forum Home Boxing Forum European British Classic Aussie MMA Training
Go Back   Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > British Boxing Forum


Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 03-29-2012, 03:59 PM   #1201
Flea Man
มวยสากล
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: @ferociousflea
Posts: 39,861
vCash: 75
Default Re: The all things technical thread.

Another one of my class typos Flipside
Flea Man is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 03-29-2012, 05:29 PM   #1202
slip&counter
Gimme some X's and O's
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: In that 3 feet of stew again...
Posts: 12,448
vCash: 1000
Default Re: The all things technical thread.

It's hard to say with Sanchez, because it's a big 'what if' but in all probability he would've improved and become an even better fighter, imo. Maybe not physically but certainly in terms of moxie and ring savy and smarts. Also technically aswell. He had the style and tools which could go into his late 20's like aging fine wine.

It's just my little personal believe but there's three events that if they hadn't happened would've changed history maybe significantly in the last 30 years. And that's Ray Leonard getting his eye injury and losing 5 years. Ike Ibeabuchi losing his mind and Salvador Sanchez tragically dying so young. I don't expect anyone to share that opinion mind. Just something i think.

To be honest, fellas. I also can't even be bothered to try and breakdown Mayweather/Cotto. I don't think Cotto has much of a chance, tbh. I think he will do relatively well. I don't think he will get blown out. He'll put up a decent showing, maybe even take a couple of rounds. But will get walked down, countered over the top behind a high guard shoulder rock away. Inside fight late on and probabily stopped. Stylistically he does have a better chance with Mayweather than he did Pacquaio though. Pacquaio's frenetic pace carried him too fast which Mayweather won't. But he's also taken a lot more damage since then and will face a harder target to hit and more precise, efficient counters.

Last edited by slip&counter; 03-29-2012 at 06:38 PM.
slip&counter is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2012, 06:21 PM   #1203
slip&counter
Gimme some X's and O's
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: In that 3 feet of stew again...
Posts: 12,448
vCash: 1000
Default Re: The all things technical thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LP_1985 View Post
Floyd is pissed with everyone saying he's a boring fighter
I don't think Floyd really cares what people think about the way fights, tbh. That's one of his major strengths. He'll fight the right fight, his fight to win and not try and appease the fans once he gets into the ring. He's tunnel vision.

I don't think he's trying to walk people down these days to 'excite'. I think he's doing that for different reasons.


Last edited by slip&counter; 03-29-2012 at 08:53 PM.
slip&counter is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2012, 06:33 PM   #1204
dftaylor
Writer, fanatic
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 10,432
vCash: 500
Default Re: The all things technical thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flea Man View Post
Very interesting, with Floyd even giving pointers to Henry in there on how to show him the Cotto look.

If Floyd wants to, I honestly think he can get rid of Miguel inside five rounds. He coasts because he can. In the last few fights (bar Marquez) we've seen more of a want to throw more punches and use less movement. Cotto isn't going to beat Floyd to the punch, won't keep him off his if he tries to go back and won't be consistently pressurising and outworking Floyd. He cannot win IMO. And I still rate Cotto now, he's certainly one of the best fighters of the last decade (top 20 IMO) and remains a competent fighter in a few different looks.

But he's not great at anything. So I can't see him beating Floyd. If Cotto had beaten Toni' all those years ago, this would've been the fight.


Please don't say these things. I want to believe Miguel can do it.
dftaylor is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2012, 07:23 PM   #1205
Lazarus
Realist
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: London, UK
Posts: 14,973
vCash: 238
Default Re: The all things technical thread.

How far do you guys think intelligence takes a fighter? Not just ring IQ, but intelligence outside the ring as well.

I only see it in guys like Bradley and Ward nowadays.
Lazarus is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2012, 10:22 AM   #1206
slip&counter
Gimme some X's and O's
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: In that 3 feet of stew again...
Posts: 12,448
vCash: 1000
Default Re: The all things technical thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lazarus View Post
How far do you guys think intelligence takes a fighter? Not just ring IQ, but intelligence outside the ring as well.

I only see it in guys like Bradley and Ward nowadays.
That's an interesting question, Umayr. I thought about that before myself. I think generally it doesn't matter how intelligent a fighter is outside of boxing or academically. That intelligence and boxing intelligence (Ring IQ) are totally different things.

However, i think there are cases in which being a little dim as a person can transfer and carry over to the ring. Amir Khan is a good example. I believe him not being the sharpest tool in the box certainly affects his ring intelligence. And being intuitively smart people certainly helped the likes of Muhammad Ali and Ray Leonard in the ring.

In most cases it doesn't matter how smart someone is outside the ring, for example James Toney has never struck me as being an intelligent person, but he's one of the smartest fighters i've seen in terms of ring IQ. And we could name so many others.

Last edited by slip&counter; 03-30-2012 at 10:37 AM.
slip&counter is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2012, 10:54 AM   #1207
DrMo
Team GB
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 10,798
vCash: 122
Default Re: The all things technical thread.

I remember reading somewhere that Adam Booth said that all great fighters were either very smart or very instinctive.

The example he gave was Leonard was a very smart fighter who trained hard to master his craft, Duran was an instinctive guy who had been fighting all his life.

Some guys learn to fight & others are born to fight
DrMo is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2012, 10:57 AM   #1208
slip&counter
Gimme some X's and O's
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: In that 3 feet of stew again...
Posts: 12,448
vCash: 1000
Default Re: The all things technical thread.

All great fighters are instinctive, imo. You have to be. But some are more natural than others.

I think Laz was asking whether how intelligent they are as people reflected on their boxing IQ. Maybe i misunderstood.
slip&counter is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2012, 11:40 AM   #1209
Flea Man
มวยสากล
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: @ferociousflea
Posts: 39,861
vCash: 75
Default Re: The all things technical thread.

Good post on Sanchez Slip, and I certainly agree the three Evers you were described were definitely some of the more unfortunate things to happen (as a fan)

Ike was class and looked to have all the tools, although ultimate I think he would've just ended up one of Lennox's best scalps. Would've been great to watch though!
Flea Man is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2012, 11:44 AM   #1210
Spearmint Rhino
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Check Hook Boxing
Posts: 2,207
vCash: 500
Default Re: The all things technical thread.

I think Lewis would have mullered Ike, personally.

Mid rounds stoppage.
Spearmint Rhino is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2012, 12:00 PM   #1211
Flea Man
มวยสากล
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: @ferociousflea
Posts: 39,861
vCash: 75
Default Re: The all things technical thread.

I think it would've been inside a few rounds myself. Ike would bring it and an in-shape and focused Lennox would've had one of his 'shit this bloke is dangerous' moments.

Ike was ****ing nails but Lennox was a bigger monster.
Flea Man is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2012, 05:13 PM   #1212
slip&counter
Gimme some X's and O's
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: In that 3 feet of stew again...
Posts: 12,448
vCash: 1000
Default Re: The all things technical thread.

Personally i think Ike was a beast and would've been MASSIVE trouble for Lennox and both Klitschko brothers. They should count their lucky stars.

The best way i can describe Ike Ibeabuchi is he was a mixture of Tyson and Holyfield in his style and attributes. I hope that's not overstating or overrating him and his potential.

Ike would only be about 38 if he were still fighting. How crazy is that. The dude was 26 years old and he had convincingly beat 2 undefeated stand out heavyweights in David Tua and Chris Byrd inside of 20 professional fights. His upside was so high, it’s sad to think about. Ike is still the largest, hardest punching, volume punching fighter I have ever seen. I don’t think in the history of boxing we have had a big punching, high volume guy that weighed over 235lbs.

His last fight was about '99. Had he received a title shot around that time from Lennox Lewis or Evander Holyfield he stood a good chance of winning. Holyfield was old and past it and started to really become inconsistent although he fought a really good fight in the Lewis rematch. Lennox was still in top form and would've beat Ike imo. But I’m not sure if he could have matched Ike’s workrate. It would have been interesting if Lewis couldn’t severely hurt Ike.

The good and bad thing about Ike was he was crazy. He didn’t seem to show discomfort or pain in the ring. Fighting through fatigue was nothing to him. I still can’t believe how hard he worked against Tua. So Ike could have faced Evander Holyfield, Mike Tyson, Lennox Lewis, both Klit bros, John Ruiz and Hasim Rahman. I can see him beating everybody.

Vitali Klitschko is a 50/50 fight and Lennox would only be a slight favourite. I don’t want to overrate Ibeabuchi, with 'what ifs' that tends to happen and i'm well aware of that. I would have liked to see him against different styles. Especially a tall, rangey puncher. But he prospered against a slick southpaw and a short swarmer. He was truly an elite talent, in my honest opinion.

Last edited by slip&counter; 03-30-2012 at 05:28 PM.
slip&counter is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2012, 05:19 PM   #1213
Lazarus
Realist
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: London, UK
Posts: 14,973
vCash: 238
Default Re: The all things technical thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by slip&counter View Post
That's an interesting question, Umayr. I thought about that before myself. I think generally it doesn't matter how intelligent a fighter is outside of boxing or academically. That intelligence and boxing intelligence (Ring IQ) are totally different things.

However, i think there are cases in which being a little dim as a person can transfer and carry over to the ring. Amir Khan is a good example. I believe him not being the sharpest tool in the box certainly affects his ring intelligence. And being intuitively smart people certainly helped the likes of Muhammad Ali and Ray Leonard in the ring.

In most cases it doesn't matter how smart someone is outside the ring, for example James Toney has never struck me as being an intelligent person, but he's one of the smartest fighters i've seen in terms of ring IQ. And we could name so many others.
Thanks for the reply, Slip. I've always thought about it, too, but just couldn't make up my mind on whether it was intelligence outside the ring that made fighters smart inside the ring, but like you said, James Toney supposedly wasn't, yet inside the ring he was. And then like you said with Khan you would just think that his lack of intelligence outside would factor into his lack of ring IQ. It's a hard subject.

There's definitely a balance between talent alone and having actual ring IQ that makes the difference.



Quote:
Originally Posted by slip&counter View Post
All great fighters are instinctive, imo. You have to be. But some are more natural than others.

I think Laz was asking whether how intelligent they are as people reflected on their boxing IQ.
Maybe i misunderstood.
Yup! Slip, do you have a Twitter?
Lazarus is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2012, 05:21 PM   #1214
Flea Man
มวยสากล
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: @ferociousflea
Posts: 39,861
vCash: 75
Default Re: The all things technical thread.

Yeah, Slip, Ike was brilliant but Lennox was a true great.

I certainly agree he'd be on an equal playing field with either Klitschko I would've favoured him over a lot of contenders from his time, who was he lines up to face around the time he went absolutely bonkers?
Flea Man is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2012, 05:24 PM   #1215
Flea Man
มวยสากล
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: @ferociousflea
Posts: 39,861
vCash: 75
Default Re: The all things technical thread.

Oh, and by the way: his stoppage of Byrd, a very talented fighter, a tough nut and a survivor, was brutal. Seriously hard single shots, and Byrd was dribbling. Great finishing instincts shown from Ibeabuchi and he picked some heinous follow up shots as well.

That win, and the attributes he displayed in his ace (Compubox record breaking) fight with Tua marked him out as a serious contender, I agree wholeheartedly there. But I have seen some fights were he's a bit sloppier and cumbersome. He was an impressive physical specimen though, and I've always felt it a shame we never saw more of him, then again I think the same of Tyrone Everett.
Flea Man is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Reply

Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > British Boxing Forum

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump





All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:49 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Boxing News 24 Forum 2013