The all things technical thread.

[Flea Man]

Me too, because on the fluoride if Cotto is competitive and puts on a good show it warms the soul. As it stands it's a cynical 'look at me I'm going up in weight against a great fighter' matchup.

IMO. But then I'm the most cynical bastard ever Paranoid!

[WalletInspector]

Originally Posted by Flea Man

Me too, because on the fluoride if Cotto is competitive and puts on a good show it warms the soul. As it stands it's a cynical 'look at me I'm going up in weight against a great fighter' matchup.

IMO. But then I'm the most cynical bastard ever Paranoid!

[Flea Man]

Another one of my class typos Flipside

[slip&counter]

It's hard to say with Sanchez, because it's a big 'what if' but in all probability he would've improved and become an even better fighter, imo. Maybe not physically but certainly in terms of moxie and ring savy and smarts. Also technically aswell. He had the style and tools which could go into his late 20's like aging fine wine.

It's just my little personal believe but there's three events that if they hadn't happened would've changed history maybe significantly in the last 30 years. And that's Ray Leonard getting his eye injury and losing 5 years. Ike Ibeabuchi losing his mind and Salvador Sanchez tragically dying so young. I don't expect anyone to share that opinion mind. Just something i think.

To be honest, fellas. I also can't even be bothered to try and breakdown Mayweather/Cotto. I don't think Cotto has much of a chance, tbh. I think he will do relatively well. I don't think he will get blown out. He'll put up a decent showing, maybe even take a couple of rounds. But will get walked down, countered over the top behind a high guard shoulder rock away. Inside fight late on and probabily stopped. Stylistically he does have a better chance with Mayweather than he did Pacquaio though. Pacquaio's frenetic pace carried him too fast which Mayweather won't. But he's also taken a lot more damage since then and will face a harder target to hit and more precise, efficient counters.

[slip&counter]

Originally Posted by LP_1985

Floyd is pissed with everyone saying he's a boring fighter

I don't think Floyd really cares what people think about the way fights, tbh. That's one of his major strengths. He'll fight the right fight, his fight to win and not try and appease the fans once he gets into the ring. He's tunnel vision.

I don't think he's trying to walk people down these days to 'excite'. I think he's doing that for different reasons.

[dftaylor]

Originally Posted by Flea Man

Very interesting, with Floyd even giving pointers to Henry in there on how to show him the Cotto look.

If Floyd wants to, I honestly think he can get rid of Miguel inside five rounds. He coasts because he can. In the last few fights (bar Marquez) we've seen more of a want to throw more punches and use less movement. Cotto isn't going to beat Floyd to the punch, won't keep him off his if he tries to go back and won't be consistently pressurising and outworking Floyd. He cannot win IMO. And I still rate Cotto now, he's certainly one of the best fighters of the last decade (top 20 IMO) and remains a competent fighter in a few different looks.

But he's not great at anything. So I can't see him beating Floyd. If Cotto had beaten Toni' all those years ago, this would've been the fight.

Please don't say these things. I want to believe Miguel can do it.

[Lazarus]

How far do you guys think intelligence takes a fighter? Not just ring IQ, but intelligence outside the ring as well.

I only see it in guys like Bradley and Ward nowadays.

[slip&counter]

Originally Posted by Lazarus

How far do you guys think intelligence takes a fighter? Not just ring IQ, but intelligence outside the ring as well.

I only see it in guys like Bradley and Ward nowadays.

That's an interesting question, Umayr. I thought about that before myself. I think generally it doesn't matter how intelligent a fighter is outside of boxing or academically. That intelligence and boxing intelligence (Ring IQ) are totally different things.

However, i think there are cases in which being a little dim as a person can transfer and carry over to the ring. Amir Khan is a good example. I believe him not being the sharpest tool in the box certainly affects his ring intelligence. And being intuitively smart people certainly helped the likes of Muhammad Ali and Ray Leonard in the ring.

In most cases it doesn't matter how smart someone is outside the ring, for example James Toney has never struck me as being an intelligent person, but he's one of the smartest fighters i've seen in terms of ring IQ. And we could name so many others.

[DrMo]

I remember reading somewhere that Adam Booth said that all great fighters were either very smart or very instinctive.

The example he gave was Leonard was a very smart fighter who trained hard to master his craft, Duran was an instinctive guy who had been fighting all his life.

Some guys learn to fight & others are born to fight

[slip&counter]

All great fighters are instinctive, imo. You have to be. But some are more natural than others.

I think Laz was asking whether how intelligent they are as people reflected on their boxing IQ. Maybe i misunderstood.

[Flea Man]

Good post on Sanchez Slip, and I certainly agree the three Evers you were described were definitely some of the more unfortunate things to happen (as a fan)

Ike was class and looked to have all the tools, although ultimate I think he would've just ended up one of Lennox's best scalps. Would've been great to watch though!

[Spearmint Rhino]

I think Lewis would have mullered Ike, personally.

Mid rounds stoppage.

[Flea Man]

I think it would've been inside a few rounds myself. Ike would bring it and an in-shape and focused Lennox would've had one of his 'shit this bloke is dangerous' moments.

Ike was fucking nails but Lennox was a bigger monster.

[slip&counter]

Personally i think Ike was a beast and would've been MASSIVE trouble for Lennox and both Klitschko brothers. They should count their lucky stars.

The best way i can describe Ike Ibeabuchi is he was a mixture of Tyson and Holyfield in his style and attributes. I hope that's not overstating or overrating him and his potential.

Ike would only be about 38 if he were still fighting. How crazy is that. The dude was 26 years old and he had convincingly beat 2 undefeated stand out heavyweights in David Tua and Chris Byrd inside of 20 professional fights. His upside was so high, it’s sad to think about. Ike is still the largest, hardest punching, volume punching fighter I have ever seen. I don’t think in the history of boxing we have had a big punching, high volume guy that weighed over 235lbs.

His last fight was about '99. Had he received a title shot around that time from Lennox Lewis or Evander Holyfield he stood a good chance of winning. Holyfield was old and past it and started to really become inconsistent although he fought a really good fight in the Lewis rematch. Lennox was still in top form and would've beat Ike imo. But I’m not sure if he could have matched Ike’s workrate. It would have been interesting if Lewis couldn’t severely hurt Ike.

The good and bad thing about Ike was he was crazy. He didn’t seem to show discomfort or pain in the ring. Fighting through fatigue was nothing to him. I still can’t believe how hard he worked against Tua. So Ike could have faced Evander Holyfield, Mike Tyson, Lennox Lewis, both Klit bros, John Ruiz and Hasim Rahman. I can see him beating everybody.

Vitali Klitschko is a 50/50 fight and Lennox would only be a slight favourite. I don’t want to overrate Ibeabuchi, with 'what ifs' that tends to happen and i'm well aware of that. I would have liked to see him against different styles. Especially a tall, rangey puncher. But he prospered against a slick southpaw and a short swarmer. He was truly an elite talent, in my honest opinion.

[Lazarus]

Originally Posted by slip&counter

That's an interesting question, Umayr. I thought about that before myself. I think generally it doesn't matter how intelligent a fighter is outside of boxing or academically. That intelligence and boxing intelligence (Ring IQ) are totally different things.

However, i think there are cases in which being a little dim as a person can transfer and carry over to the ring. Amir Khan is a good example. I believe him not being the sharpest tool in the box certainly affects his ring intelligence. And being intuitively smart people certainly helped the likes of Muhammad Ali and Ray Leonard in the ring.

In most cases it doesn't matter how smart someone is outside the ring, for example James Toney has never struck me as being an intelligent person, but he's one of the smartest fighters i've seen in terms of ring IQ. And we could name so many others.

Thanks for the reply, Slip. I've always thought about it, too, but just couldn't make up my mind on whether it was intelligence outside the ring that made fighters smart inside the ring, but like you said, James Toney supposedly wasn't, yet inside the ring he was. And then like you said with Khan you would just think that his lack of intelligence outside would factor into his lack of ring IQ. It's a hard subject.

There's definitely a balance between talent alone and having actual ring IQ that makes the difference.

Originally Posted by slip&counter

All great fighters are instinctive, imo. You have to be. But some are more natural than others.

I think Laz was asking whether how intelligent they are as people reflected on their boxing IQ. Maybe i misunderstood.

Yup! Slip, do you have a Twitter?