Holyfield - Dempsey

hopkinsfan07 · 07-03-2007, 11:29 PM

at 190

rekcutnevets · 07-03-2007, 11:37 PM

I think that Evander peaked after he first loss to Bowe, even though he got a few health concerns a little later. This is when he learned that technique, and strategy, were just as important as his heart. The Holyfield that fought Tyson would beat Dempsey.

The Holyfield that lost to Riddick Bowe was too willing to trade with his opponent, and simply try to outwill him. This would not have worked against Dempey.

You said the fight would be at 190, so I'm going to say that Evander would have yet to learn his lesson at this point. Dempsey by ko round 9. It is hard to picture.

salsanchezfan · 07-04-2007, 12:11 AM

I'll disagree with you on one point, Rek........the peak Holyfield in my opinion was at cruiserweight.

His march to heavy came at an opportune time for him, as he was just reaching his physical peak, but that jump also meant he couldn;t steamroll guys as he had been. Suddenly, he had to adjust and be more opportunistic and finesse his way through certain situations he could just by physical with at 190. In short, he had to compromise overall effectiveness for guile at heavyweight. He had to squeak by. Therefore, I can't call him a peak fighter at heavy.

I do agree that Dempsey stops him, though. Dempsey would be like Qawi the first time around, but more mobile and harder-punching.

robert ungurean · 07-04-2007, 12:46 AM

Dempsey would catch him.Cant say when but he would take Holy out.

Zakman · 07-04-2007, 01:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robert ungurean

Dempsey would catch him.Cant say when but he would take Holy out.

I'm a big, big Holyfield fan, but Jack Dempsey is one of the most underrated HW champs today and I'm inclined to agree. Dempsey didn't fold like Tyson when people weren't afraid of him, he just kept coming. He'd get Evander. If Bowe could take Evander out, the Manassa Mauler sure could.

UpWithEvil · 07-04-2007, 01:10 AM

Quote:

I'll disagree with you on one point, Rek........the peak Holyfield in my opinion was at cruiserweight.

I agree with this, Evander was an incredibly dominant fighter as a cruiserweight; the explosive, 185lb Holyfield has it all over the "grinder" 210lb Holyfield.

hopkinsfan07 · 07-04-2007, 01:25 AM

you are all saying dempsey would ko him but holyfield had a great chin even more so at cruiserweight

salsanchezfan · 07-04-2007, 01:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hopkinsfan07

you are all saying dempsey would ko him but holyfield had a great chin even more so at cruiserweight

............Sure he did, but anyone can be hurt. He was shaken a couple times by a far softer puncher in Qawi at that weight. Qawi was no Dempsey in the power department. He was also faster than Qawi.

Senya13 · 07-04-2007, 01:37 AM

Holyfield wins a dirty match on points, close decision.

UpWithEvil · 07-04-2007, 03:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hopkinsfan07

you are all saying dempsey would ko him but holyfield had a great chin even more so at cruiserweight

Holyfield could take a better punch as a heavyweight than he could at cruiser - the most amazing thing about his steroid-fueled physical transformation under the guidance of Lee Haney was Holyfield's massive neck. That's the reason Evander could go toe-to-toe with Riddick Bowe and George Foreman.

In every other aspect of boxing, however, Holy the Heavy was inferior to the cruiserweight. Were they to somehow meet in the ring, I'd take the cruiserweight incarnation over the heavyweight championship edition by a solid JD.

rekcutnevets · 07-04-2007, 06:02 AM

Physically, Holyfield may have been at his peak at 190. His technique, and willingness to stick to game plan was not. He had the ability before the Bowe fight to be as good as he became in his 30's. Watch the 1st round, of his 1st encounter, with Riddick Bowe. That was an excellent way to try to fight Bowe. The problem is that he was willing to throw any strategy out the window and try to outwill his opponent as soon as he got his bell rung, or wanted to get even with his opponent. Holyfield had some memorable trades because of this flaw, so I am glad he had it. Stewart, Cooper, Bowe, great exchanges.

It was not until he lost his first fight using his will that he was willing to follow a game plan.

Duodenum · 07-04-2007, 08:36 AM

I don't see Dempsey losing to Holyfield. Evander needed a solid chin, because he got hit so much. He also has a body beneath his jaw, something Jack would not have overlooked.

Muscling Dempsey back wouldn't work as it did against Tyson, because of Jack's footspeed and lateral mobility.

Because of Evander's huge heart, this would need to be stopped by his corner or the referee.

Dempsey RET or RSC 8 Holyfield

Bummy Davis · 07-04-2007, 08:41 AM

Dempsey had the real firepower here, I pick Dempsey by a stop but the older(championship era) Dempsey was not as fit and would give up stamina to Holyfield, could be outworked prime vs prime Dempsey by a stop

Holmes' Jab · 07-04-2007, 08:48 AM

Dempsey stops him. Holyfield like the warrior he is gives a game performance, but goes out on his shield late on in the contest.

I agree with Duodenum (to an extent) that muscling Dempsey back wouldn't work as effectively as it did against Tyson in '96. A pre-Buster Douglas Tyson did have this aforementioned footspeed and lateral mobility on the same level as Dempsey- the version Holy faced did not.

Icemmann · 07-04-2007, 11:44 AM

Are you guys nuts? Holyfield would headbutt him into submission.

07-03-2007, 11:29 PM	#1
hopkinsfan07 Contender ESB Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 964 vCash: 1305	Holyfield - Dempsey at 190
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07-03-2007, 11:37 PM	#2
rekcutnevets Black Sash East Side Guru Join Date: May 2007 Location: InYourMouth, NC Posts: 6,523 vCash: 1000	Re: Holyfield - Dempsey I think that Evander peaked after he first loss to Bowe, even though he got a few health concerns a little later. This is when he learned that technique, and strategy, were just as important as his heart. The Holyfield that fought Tyson would beat Dempsey. The Holyfield that lost to Riddick Bowe was too willing to trade with his opponent, and simply try to outwill him. This would not have worked against Dempey. You said the fight would be at 190, so I'm going to say that Evander would have yet to learn his lesson at this point. Dempsey by ko round 9. It is hard to picture.
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07-04-2007, 12:11 AM	#3
salsanchezfan Belt holder ESB Addict Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Auburn, WA Posts: 3,627 vCash: 1000	Re: Holyfield - Dempsey I'll disagree with you on one point, Rek........the peak Holyfield in my opinion was at cruiserweight. His march to heavy came at an opportune time for him, as he was just reaching his physical peak, but that jump also meant he couldn;t steamroll guys as he had been. Suddenly, he had to adjust and be more opportunistic and finesse his way through certain situations he could just by physical with at 190. In short, he had to compromise overall effectiveness for guile at heavyweight. He had to squeak by. Therefore, I can't call him a peak fighter at heavy. I do agree that Dempsey stops him, though. Dempsey would be like Qawi the first time around, but more mobile and harder-punching.
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07-04-2007, 12:46 AM	#4
robert ungurean Belt holder ESB Addict Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: liftin 3 kettlebells in pa.usa Posts: 2,136 vCash: 1000	Re: Holyfield - Dempsey Dempsey would catch him.Cant say when but he would take Holy out.
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07-04-2007, 01:25 AM	#7
hopkinsfan07 Contender ESB Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 964 vCash: 1305	Re: Holyfield - Dempsey you are all saying dempsey would ko him but holyfield had a great chin even more so at cruiserweight
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07-04-2007, 01:37 AM	#9
Senya13 Belt holder ESB Addict Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Russia Posts: 3,334 vCash: 1210	Re: Holyfield - Dempsey Holyfield wins a dirty match on points, close decision.
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07-04-2007, 06:02 AM	#11
rekcutnevets Black Sash East Side Guru Join Date: May 2007 Location: InYourMouth, NC Posts: 6,523 vCash: 1000	Re: Holyfield - Dempsey Physically, Holyfield may have been at his peak at 190. His technique, and willingness to stick to game plan was not. He had the ability before the Bowe fight to be as good as he became in his 30's. Watch the 1st round, of his 1st encounter, with Riddick Bowe. That was an excellent way to try to fight Bowe. The problem is that he was willing to throw any strategy out the window and try to outwill his opponent as soon as he got his bell rung, or wanted to get even with his opponent. Holyfield had some memorable trades because of this flaw, so I am glad he had it. Stewart, Cooper, Bowe, great exchanges. It was not until he lost his first fight using his will that he was willing to follow a game plan.
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07-04-2007, 08:36 AM	#12
Duodenum Champion East Side Guru Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 5,794 vCash: 1000	Re: Holyfield - Dempsey I don't see Dempsey losing to Holyfield. Evander needed a solid chin, because he got hit so much. He also has a body beneath his jaw, something Jack would not have overlooked. Muscling Dempsey back wouldn't work as it did against Tyson, because of Jack's footspeed and lateral mobility. Because of Evander's huge heart, this would need to be stopped by his corner or the referee. Dempsey RET or RSC 8 Holyfield
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07-04-2007, 08:41 AM	#13
Bummy Davis Champion East Side Guru Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: New York Posts: 8,238 vCash: 1000	Re: Holyfield - Dempsey Dempsey had the real firepower here, I pick Dempsey by a stop but the older(championship era) Dempsey was not as fit and would give up stamina to Holyfield, could be outworked prime vs prime Dempsey by a stop
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07-04-2007, 08:48 AM	#14
Holmes' Jab Master Jabber ESB Addict Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 2,517 vCash: 1000	Re: Holyfield - Dempsey Dempsey stops him. Holyfield like the warrior he is gives a game performance, but goes out on his shield late on in the contest. I agree with Duodenum (to an extent) that muscling Dempsey back wouldn't work as effectively as it did against Tyson in '96. A pre-Buster Douglas Tyson did have this aforementioned footspeed and lateral mobility on the same level as Dempsey- the version Holy faced did not.
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07-04-2007, 11:44 AM	#15
Icemmann Breakin it down. ESB Full Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: In a Treehouse Posts: 471 vCash: 75	Re: Holyfield - Dempsey Are you guys nuts? Holyfield would headbutt him into submission.
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