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Old 02-09-2012, 07:59 PM   #31
Haggis McJackass
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Default Re: Why does nobody ever score 10-10 rounds? What's the problem?

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Originally Posted by SouthpawSlayer View Post
its not about making bull**** justifications to award a round to someone or not, its pretty ****ing simple in mma to pick a winner of a round based on all the criteria they give over a five minute period,
Oh really?

Well if it's that ****ing simple to pick a winner of a round, how come professional fighters disagree with each other about who deserved the decision in a close fight? Wouldn't everyone who knows the sport have the same card? Wouldn't Randy Couture judge every round of every fight exactly the same as Bas Rutten does? Or if they disagree on who won a round, does that mean that one of them "knows **** all about the technicalities of the sport"? And let me guess - that one would be the one who disagrees with your opinion on who won it, right?

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Originally Posted by SouthpawSlayer View Post
it goes to show you know **** all about the technicalities of the sport if you cannot see which fighter was more effective at damage inflected, controlling where the fight took place and if in a rare case if these are even then the fighter who was more aggressive will win the round
In Diaz-Condit, who controlled where the fight took place? Diaz was moving forward, but he was never controlling where the action was. He wanted to fight with Condit's back pressed against the cage, but he couldn't manage to get it there. Condit was reacting to Diaz's movements. But whenever he thought, "Hmmm, I think I'll go back to the centre of the cage now", he went to the centre of the cage and Diaz was powerless to stop him. I view that as controlling where the fight took place. Others view that as running from Diaz. It's OPINION, see?

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Originally Posted by SouthpawSlayer View Post
if a fighter lands one strike more than the other fighter everything else equal then he is the winner according the rule book, you ****ing numpty
But everything else is never equal, you simpleton.

What about if one fighter isn't even interested in landing strikes at all, he just wants to control position on the ground and attempt submissions, but he's getting arm-punched all the time and ignoring it while he's working? You give the round to the guy who landed 50 ineffective nothing punches, while ignoring the guy who was in control of the fight?

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Old 02-09-2012, 08:06 PM   #32
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Default Re: Why does nobody ever score 10-10 rounds? What's the problem?

Haggis, that's why they have THREE Judges you ****ing clown, because opinions differ in a close fight. Either there is a 3-0 consensus that one guy won the round, or at most 1 guy disagrees with the other two Nothing in that post suggests you should have a drawn round

The fact that you called slayer a simpleton, then came up with a hypothetical situation to suit your argument instead of a REAL example from an actual fight, spells out who really is the simpleton here.
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Old 02-09-2012, 08:14 PM   #33
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Default Re: Why does nobody ever score 10-10 rounds? What's the problem?

just because people disagree on who won a round does not merit it being able to be scored a draw, person A could score it one way because he favours or believes more in whatever strenght he saw and vice versa for person B, just because people see a round differently you think then it gives the opportunity to score the round a draw. your totally getting off topic and digging yourself a hole, your argument is flawed as is your thread and you should leave this argument as your only making yourself look more stupid mate

btw your actually having this argument with the number 1 (stoo) and number 2(myself) ranked guys in the prediction league, do you think thats just a coincidence or maybe we understand the scoring of fights better than yourself!!
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Old 02-09-2012, 08:26 PM   #34
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Default Re: Why does nobody ever score 10-10 rounds? What's the problem?

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Originally Posted by SouthpawSlayer View Post
just because people disagree on who won a round does not merit it being able to be scored a draw, person A could score it one way because he favours or believes more in whatever strenght he saw and vice versa for person B, just because people see a round differently you think then it gives the opportunity to score the round a draw. your totally getting off topic and digging yourself a hole, your argument is flawed as is your thread and you should leave this argument as your only making yourself look more stupid mate

btw your actually having this argument with the number 1 (stoo) and number 2(myself) ranked guys in the prediction league, do you think thats just a coincidence or maybe we understand the scoring of fights better than yourself!!
This will bite you on the **** when Stoo starts drinking before he predicts again

I agree with you and Stoo its very difficult to score a round a draw as its almost impossible for a round to be a draw except the fight Stoo posted

A judge will always or should always find something to make him give the round to someone. It all depends on what people prefer hence different scorecards and results.

I would like to see a few notes on the judges cards to show why they give it to a fighter though. It would clear a few things up.
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Old 02-09-2012, 08:28 PM   #35
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Default Re: Why does nobody ever score 10-10 rounds? What's the problem?

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This will bite you on the **** when Stoo starts drinking before he predicts again
It's funny cause it's true
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Old 02-09-2012, 08:29 PM   #36
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Default Re: Why does nobody ever score 10-10 rounds? What's the problem?

I always feel like one guy deserved to win the round. It's very rare that I feel a 10-10 was necessary.
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Old 02-09-2012, 10:14 PM   #37
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Default Re: Why does nobody ever score 10-10 rounds? What's the problem?

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Haggis, that's why they have THREE Judges you ****ing clown, because opinions differ in a close fight.
If it's that easy to know who won the round, why have three judges? If it's close enough that pro fighters and experts who are professionally involved with the sport disagree over which man got the better of the round, why isn't it close enough to say "Neither man had a clear advantage over the other. They share the honours."???

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The fact that you called slayer a simpleton, then came up with a hypothetical situation to suit your argument instead of a REAL example from an actual fight, spells out who really is the simpleton here.
I came up with a real example. The last round of the last big fight, to be precise. I outlined the argument for why Diaz should have won it, and why Condit should have won it. Both of them are perfectly valid. In reality, neither man did enough make a strong claim that he definitively got the better of the round as a whole. Diaz had the best single minute out of the five minutes, (although he did no damage and nothing came of it), but for the other four minutes he was ineffective and Condit was controlling him with ease.

Why should Diaz win the round merely for taking Condit's back for one minute and being unable to do anything from that position, and spending the other four minutes shuffling forward like a zombie, getting potshotted at will and landing nothing of consequence?

And why should Condit win the round when he was fighting off submissions for part of it and never had Diaz rocked or backpedalling during the rest of it?

Neither man clearly got the better of the other, and that is why opinion on it is so divided. Because both men have a good argument for why they got the better of that round. And if both men have a good argument for getting the nod, to me that sounds like a round that was fought on even terms.

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Old 02-09-2012, 10:32 PM   #38
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Default Re: Why does nobody ever score 10-10 rounds? What's the problem?

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Originally Posted by SouthpawSlayer View Post
just because people disagree on who won a round does not merit it being able to be scored a draw, person A could score it one way because he favours or believes more in whatever strenght he saw and vice versa for person B, just because people see a round differently you think then it gives the opportunity to score the round a draw.
Hold on, I thought "its pretty ****ing simple in mma to pick a winner of a round based on all the criteria they give"?

Now you're saying it's not that simple, that the criteria is loosely defined and it all comes down to how you see it?

Well, when I see a round in which neither fighter gets the better of the other, I have a tough time giving it to one guy for some trivial bull**** reason. I'm not in the habit of awarding a guy 1/3rd of the fight just because he landed one flashy-looking, mostly-blocked head kick that had no effect at all on his opponent.

For me, the single most important criteria is a simple "Which one is closer to fighting the type of fight that he wants it to be?" Octagon generalship, in other words.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthpawSlayer View Post
btw your actually having this argument with the number 1 (stoo) and number 2(myself) ranked guys in the prediction league, do you think thats just a coincidence or maybe we understand the scoring of fights better than yourself!!
Awesome. I don't take part in the prediction league, but if you look at my vcash total, I know a thing or two about picking fights myself. A return of better than $33 to the dollar suggests I might not be a re**** at ****yzing combat sports myself eh?

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Old 02-09-2012, 11:24 PM   #39
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Default Re: Why does nobody ever score 10-10 rounds? What's the problem?

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Originally Posted by Haggis McJackass View Post
If it's that easy to know who won the round, why have three judges? If it's close enough that pro fighters and experts who are professionally involved with the sport disagree over which man got the better of the round, why isn't it close enough to say "Neither man had a clear advantage over the other. They share the honours."???
I never said it was easy in that post, and you've got a habit of making me repeat myself you clown. Go re-read what I said, including the part that you edited out
You truly are a mong. The point of having 3 Judges is that TWO of them, the MAJORITY, thought Fighter A deserved the round, even if the advantage wasnt clear cut. When 3 guys have a choice between A & B, at least two of them will pick the same option, thus determining the winner

Your point that if a fight is close, award them the same, which equals dont scored the round, is truly ****ing moronic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Haggis McJackass View Post
I came up with a real example. The last round of the last big fight, to be precise. I outlined the argument for why Diaz should have won it, and why Condit should have won it. Both of them are perfectly valid. In reality, neither man did enough make a strong claim that he definitively got the better of the round as a whole. Diaz had the best single minute out of the five minutes, (although he did no damage and nothing came of it), but for the other four minutes he was ineffective and Condit was controlling him with ease.
Yes, you came up with one example, out of the entire history of MMA, you came up with one, even though Ive asked you about 3 times to come up with a few to make a draw round valid. You came up with one...even though EVERYONE else has offered an opinion as too who deserved it. Im obviously in the wrong here

Ok then, round was close, so dont score it Dont do your job and determine which of the aforementioned fighters was more deserving for the reason's you stated and if at least one person agrees with you then a fighter A wins. Just cop out, and dont score the round at all...


Quote:
Originally Posted by Haggis McJackass View Post
Why should Diaz win the round merely for taking Condit's back for one minute and being unable to do anything from that position, and spending the other four minutes shuffling forward like a zombie, getting potshotted at will and landing nothing of consequence?

And why should Condit win the round when he was fighting off submissions for part of it and never had Diaz rocked or backpedalling during the rest of it?

Neither man clearly got the better of the other, and that is why opinion on it is so divided. Because both men have a good argument for why they got the better of that round. And if both men have a good argument for getting the nod, to me that sounds like a round that was fought on even terms.

It's your opinion that neither men got the better of the other. Fair enough. But other posters on this board will give and opinion as to who won. Unless a straw pole of the majority of posters on this forum say they cant score the round because it's too close, then you may have a point. But Ive not read anyone else, on any forum, or any fight review, say they cant score the 5th round so it should be a draw.

Even if you did have the option of a draw round, then there is still a possibility that two Judges score the round for Fighter A, and one will score it a draw anyway. It's pointless and re****ed

Last edited by Stoo; 02-09-2012 at 11:36 PM.
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Old 02-10-2012, 12:01 AM   #40
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Default Re: Why does nobody ever score 10-10 rounds? What's the problem?

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Originally Posted by Haggis McJackass View Post
Hold on, I thought "its pretty ****ing simple in mma to pick a winner of a round based on all the criteria they give"?

Now you're saying it's not that simple, that the criteria is loosely defined and it all comes down to how you see it?
You've totally skewed the point slayer made, which is not like you is it

What he meant by simple is there's more than one aspect in which to Judge an MMA fight

Effective striking
Effective grappling
Octagon control
Aggression, i.e. who made the most effort to finish the fight

Which means it's less likely that two fighters will entirely neutralise each other in all these criteria in which to warrant a draw That's why the Judges, the professional, experienced guys who do this for a living, has a strict clearly defined criteria in which to JUDGE a round, which is open to a degree of interpretation. That's why they have 3 Judges, but this has been explained over and over again to you

Quote:
Originally Posted by Haggis McJackass View Post
Well, when I see a round in which neither fighter gets the better of the other, I have a tough time giving it to one guy for some trivial bull**** reason. I'm not in the habit of awarding a guy 1/3rd of the fight just because he landed one flashy-looking, mostly-blocked head kick that had no effect at all on his opponent.

For me, the single most important criteria is a simple "Which one is closer to fighting the type of fight that he wants it to be?" Octagon generalship, in other words.
That's why you are not a Judge
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Old 02-10-2012, 06:11 AM   #41
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Default Re: Why does nobody ever score 10-10 rounds? What's the problem?

im not gonna bother anymore haggis, there is no point even attempting to have a debate with you as your resolved to twisting my comments, lieing and talking absolute bollox about something in which no one even agrees with
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Old 02-10-2012, 10:27 AM   #42
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Default Re: Why does nobody ever score 10-10 rounds? What's the problem?

Southpaw-10
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'Nuff said.
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Old 02-12-2012, 11:19 PM   #43
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Default Re: Why does nobody ever score 10-10 rounds? What's the problem?

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im not gonna bother anymore haggis, there is no point even attempting to have a debate with you as your resolved to twisting my comments, lieing and talking absolute bollox about something in which no one even agrees with
Where have I lied or twisted your comments?

All I did, was ask a question.

MMA scoring with the 10 point system is universally acknowledged to be badly flawed. This is due to the complexity of the sport and the many and varied ways to gain advantage in a fight. Agreed?

Now, IN MY OPINION, there are MANY rounds where neither fighter has a clear advantage over the other.

In such rounds, I don't think it's particularly fair to give a guy a round (and 1/3rd of a fight), simply because (for example) he was ineffectively walking forwards and I personally like come-forward fighters better than I like counterpunchers.

If you can make a serious case for why EITHER fighter deserved to win the round, then IMO it is better to acknowledge that and call it even rather than have your own personal stylistic preferences dictate who gets a close round. ESPECIALLY when fights are decided over only three rounds. Because then you're essentially saying "That round was certainly very ****ing close, but I give it to Fighter A because I like him better."

That's all I am saying. I fail to see how this is such a moronic and ignorant stance.

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Old 02-12-2012, 11:32 PM   #44
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Default Re: Why does nobody ever score 10-10 rounds? What's the problem?

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Originally Posted by Haggis McJackass View Post

Now, IN MY OPINION, there are MANY rounds where neither fighter has a clear advantage over the other.
Name ALL of them please, every single one you think can not be scored
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Old 02-12-2012, 11:37 PM   #45
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Default Re: Why does nobody ever score 10-10 rounds? What's the problem?

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It all depends on what people prefer hence different scorecards and results.
Exactly. And this is the part I have an issue with.

Say that fighter A is a brawler and fighter B is a slick mover and counterstriker, and all three judges are known to favour pressure fighters. Now fighter A knows that all he has to do is not clearly lose any rounds, and he'll win the fight by 30-27 shutout. He can be ineffective, he can get picked apart, but as long as he keeps moving forward swinging at air, getting most of his strikes blocked but keeping his opponent on the backfoot, he'll win the round.

Conversely, a different set of judges might mean that in the same exact fight, fighter B wins a 30-27 decision because he hit without getting hit and showed a broader skillset. Every round was close, you can argue all of them for either fighter. But judge's personal preference for what fighting style they personally like to see led them to score a shutout. IMO that's not right.

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