What If Joe Frazier Used The "Peek-A-Boo" Techniques?

[Hydraulix]

Do you think it would have improved his already vicious style? I think so. Frazier generally used two-punch combinations. The peek-a-boo combinations require both hands, so Frazier wouldn't rely so much on his left hook. Frazier had quick hands and was busy on the inside; therefore I think he might have had quicker KOs if he used this style, which requires both hands and three/four punch combos.

Frazier had some decent combinations. He really surprised Quarry with this wallop in their rematch. Left jab/left hook.

GIFSoup

This was Frazier's favorite combination, though. The left hook to the body, followed by another to the head.

GIFSoup

Frazier was great but I think if he used the peek-a-boo style and combined it with his already endless stamina he would have been more dangerous.

[McGrain]

It's an interesting point well made but my first reaction is "no". Frazier's style worked off as a firm an intergration of offence, defence, movement as iv'e seen in a HW, that is, his left hook worked firmly in place with that shucking jiving style, he used to come up of those defencive moves to deliver that punch, he worked it in different ways. You risk losing that if you mess with his style. If you watch the peek-a-boo guys, they probe with the front foot, add body movement and throw, Frazier's style was to pre-cut the ring as quickly as possible and then shuck. He moved you back actively rather than with small moves.

[Hydraulix]

Originally Posted by McGrain

It's an interesting point well made but my first reaction is "no". Frazier's style worked off as a firm an intergration of offence, defence, movement as iv'e seen in a HW, that is, his left hook worked firmly in place with that shucking jiving style, he used to come up of those defencive moves to deliver that punch, he worked it in different ways. You risk losing that if you mess with his style. If you watch the peek-a-boo guys, they probe with the front foot, add body movement and throw, Frazier's style was to pre-cut the ring as quickly as possible and then shuck. He moved you back actively rather than with small moves.

Good post. I was just wondering how effective Joe would have been if he were throwing more uppercuts and peek-a-boo combos like 3-2-2 Body-Head-Body or 3-3-2 Body-Body-Head.

[Guyfawkes]

Actually IMO Tyson would have benefited from trying to emulate Fraziers style

[McGrain]

It's another interesting idea, but for all his footspeed I don't think Tyson had that natural fleet-footed balance. I think he would get caught out of balance a fair bit. He didn't flow quite like Frazier, not in terms of his punches but rather in terms of his overall movement.

Sytle flows naturally into physical capability. You can't mess to much with the movements that come naturally, you just build technique around that natural movement or drill to improve natural balance.

[Foreman Hook]

Originally Posted by Guyfawkes

Actually IMO Tyson would have benefited from trying to emulate Fraziers style

Naah.

Smokey Joe's style involved way more headmovements And punch-output than Tyson's.

Tyson did NOT have teh great stamina to emulate Frazier.



Foreman Hoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooook!

[MagnaNasakki]

Originally Posted by McGrain

It's an interesting point well made but my first reaction is "no". Frazier's style worked off as a firm an intergration of offence, defence, movement as iv'e seen in a HW, that is, his left hook worked firmly in place with that shucking jiving style, he used to come up of those defencive moves to deliver that punch, he worked it in different ways. You risk losing that if you mess with his style. If you watch the peek-a-boo guys, they probe with the front foot, add body movement and throw, Frazier's style was to pre-cut the ring as quickly as possible and then shuck. He moved you back actively rather than with small moves.

This.

Even Joe would have told you that while his right was serviceable, he loved his left hook. Throwing right hands didn't feel natural to him. He crafted his style to allow him to throw his left hook as often as he wanted, because that wasn't just his best punch, it was his favorite, and thats important when crafting a boxer.

McGrain also emphasises that Frazier's up down head movement was a perfect compliment to a left hook. He counters off his movements to great effect.

I believe his style included defense to a better degree than Cus' distinctly flawed peek-a-boo. Fighters fighting out of it load up extremely heavily on side angles and 45 degree steps. Its frankly pretty easy to time, so peek-a-boo fighters get hit, quite a bit. They just get terrific torque on circular punches, and against fighters who are slow, or a good degree slower, they can take an angle and get a shot off on an open target.

Tyson and Patterson were lightning, and thus well served to take advantage of their fast hands and feet this way. Joe was a slower guy with a different kind of power and approach. He would have gotten destroyed by quite a few guys he beat if he tried to turn it into the footwork and angles battle that the D'Amato peek-a-boo demands.

For a record, I love Cus as a trainer and a coach. I met him, I saw him work with guys, he was really quite incredible. I just see holes defensively in some of his techniques and go to moves.

You know your technical boxing, McGrain. Do you train fighters?

[Foreman Hook]

Originally Posted by McGrain

It's another interesting idea, but for all his footspeed I don't think Tyson had that natural fleet-footed balance. I think he would get caught out of balance a fair bit. He didn't flow quite like Frazier, not in terms of his punches but rather in terms of his overall movement.

Sytle flows naturally into physical capability. You can't mess to much with the movements that come naturally, you just build technique around that natural movement or drill to improve natural balance.

XPERT post m8.

Smokey Joe had proper mint balance - Tyson ALWAYS had balance issues, so he could NEVER move forward organically with flowing PRESSURE like a strong current of a rushing river, as Frazier did relentlessley.


Foreman Hoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooook!

[McGrain]

Originally Posted by MagnaNasakki

You know your technical boxing, McGrain. Do you train fighters?

No sir. Thank you for that compliment though.

[Lartize]

I would like to add; that Frazier did have a good right hand. I've seen a good few of his fights recently (within the past 5 months) were I noticed at least one or two of his knockdowns during the fight.. came off of a short crisp right hand to the jaw followed by his left.

He of course threw the left way more... but I feel like he knew everyone knew that.. so he worked it into his game plan that people expected him to be an almost 1 handed fighter.. scoring some KD's for him.

[Duodenum]

Something not mentioned yet is that like Smoke, Uzcudun had an early injury to his left arm which prevented him from straightening it out, resulting in Paulino adapting with a cross armed posture. Depending on the precise nature of the childhood injury to his own left arm, adopting the peek-a-boo may simply not have been practical for Joe, even if he aspired to mimic Patterson.

While providing some commentary during Torres-Cotton, Carlos Ortiz mentioned that he himself was against the peek-a-boo. Certainly the cross arm had a more substantial history behind it, thanks to Moore, Uzcudun and Max Baer. (Maxie may have learned it from Paulino. Are there any action photographs or footage of Max using a cross arm prior to Uzcudun-Baer?)

[Bogotazo]

I don't think so. Frazier employed his style of bobbing and weaving out of a crouch, and so he needed more visibility and priority protection of his chin by his gloves. Had he adopted a peekaboo guard, I feel he would have lost the ability to work effectively out of the clinch on the inside, and been even more vulnerable to uppercuts. Tyson had a lower center of gravity and bent his knees more, so visibility and upper body exposure wasn't as much of a liability for him, and he didn't often work out of a clinch.

[Tuaman]

Tyson said in this interview that his style was not like Joe Frazier's. People used to always compare young Tyson to Smokin' Joe during his prime.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2VYrj2DxqdY[/ame]

[Jayhaych]

I think with smaller fighters with a smaller reach it's imperative that you get to the second phase of fighting as quickly as possible.....Tyson did this brilliantly in his prime by using head feints and quick footwork..then got on the opponents chest, then worked inside.

Frazier cut the ring off by shucking and jiving, but he also blocked punches whilst coming in...he didn't have the footwork to employ the peak a boo style but put educated pressure by cutting off the ring. When in the second phase of fighting he was deadly with his hook to body and head.

[Shake]

Originally Posted by Hydraulix

Do you think it would have improved his already vicious style? I think so. Frazier generally used two-punch combinations. The peek-a-boo combinations require both hands, so Frazier wouldn't rely so much on his left hook. Frazier had quick hands and was busy on the inside; therefore I think he might have had quicker KOs if he used this style, which requires both hands and three/four punch combos.

Frazier had some decent combinations. He really surprised Quarry with this wallop in their rematch. Left jab/left hook.

This was Frazier's favorite combination, though. The left hook to the body, followed by another to the head.

Frazier was great but I think if he used the peek-a-boo style and combined it with his already endless stamina he would have been more dangerous.

Fraziers guarding stance wasn't paramount to his incredible success. If he'd have learned to be proficient with it, he would have thrived with the peek-a-boo as much as his old guard. He lost to two men while relevant, it's nearly impossible for Frazier specifically to improve upon that.

He fulfilled his potential as fully as any man.