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Old 12-31-2007, 06:05 PM   #1
ironchamp
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Default How Important is the Title Really?

Here's the scenario:

Fighter A - popular fighter, feasts on field of tomato cans and gets an underserved title shot. He wins the title and cleans out most of the division before losing to fighter C.

Fighter B - Workhorse, not as popular as fighter A though has a similar style to Fighter A. Politics deny him a title shot but cleans out most of the division before finally getting a chance at the title only to lose to Fighter C.

Who goes down as the greater fighter assuming they retire after thier first loss?
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Old 12-31-2007, 06:11 PM   #2
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Default Re: How Important is the Title Really?

Fighter A with the media hype of couse. Also Fighter A as champ did clean out the divsion, so you could give credit for that.

Fighter B would go down as I suppose a Harry Wills or a Lew Tendler. Still great and talk about, but never up there with Jack Dempsey or Benny Leonard(Though Benny did give Tendler 2 trys at the title.)
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Old 01-01-2008, 03:40 PM   #3
prime
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Default Re: How Important is the Title Really?

Obviously, Fighter A. He became champ and for a time was the baddest man on the planet. Plus he put butts in seats!
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Old 01-01-2008, 04:09 PM   #4
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Default Re: How Important is the Title Really?

Fighter A. Everyone trains harder to beat the champ.
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Old 01-01-2008, 07:27 PM   #5
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Default Re: How Important is the Title Really?

I say B is better than A, if he beats A before losing the title to C. The real winner here, though would be C. That is, of course, if A and B are still in, or near, their primes at the times of their losses.

That was fun.
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Old 01-01-2008, 08:37 PM   #6
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Default Re: How Important is the Title Really?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rekcutnevets
I say B is better than A, if he beats A before losing the title to C. The real winner here, though would be C. That is, of course, if A and B are still in, or near, their primes at the times of their losses.

That was fun.
The assumption is that "A" and "B" never fight. There is a build up to their fight but "A" loses his title to "C" before the fight comes off.

"B" beats everybody before he gets a shot at the title. He finally gets a shot at the title after "C" becomes champ and loses. A's resume is pretty much the same as B's resume but "A" got his wins after becoming the champ whereas "B" got similar wins without ever being champ.
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Old 01-01-2008, 08:43 PM   #7
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Default Re: How Important is the Title Really?

I kinda got that at the beginning. I was just trying to have some fun.
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Old 01-02-2008, 04:48 AM   #8
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Default Re: How Important is the Title Really?

Well, of course a lot of it would come down to specifics and subjective assessment, but you would generally have to go with fighter A, because the championship does typically represent a benchmark for greatness, and fighters challenging for the title know that they're going in there for the ultimate prize in the sport, unlike ones who are simply fighting a backwoods match against a guy who's under-the-radar and has never fought for the title. When you're champion, you have a big "X" on your forehead and everyone is aiming for it. It takes something special to keep staving off top challengers on a consistent basis.
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Old 01-02-2008, 07:24 AM   #9
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Default Re: How Important is the Title Really?

Fighter A. Who's to say Fighter B might not have bottle it when given the chance to fight for the title. Fighter A at least seized his opportunity.
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Old 01-02-2008, 08:38 AM   #10
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Default Re: How Important is the Title Really?

A. He beat who he needed to beat.
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Old 01-02-2008, 09:40 AM   #11
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Default Re: How Important is the Title Really?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marciano Frazier
Well, of course a lot of it would come down to specifics and subjective assessment, but you would generally have to go with fighter A, because the championship does typically represent a benchmark for greatness, and fighters challenging for the title know that they're going in there for the ultimate prize in the sport, unlike ones who are simply fighting a backwoods match against a guy who's under-the-radar and has never fought for the title. When you're champion, you have a big "X" on your forehead and everyone is aiming for it. It takes something special to keep staving off top challengers on a consistent basis.
My sentiments exactly but if that is the case why is Ezzard Charles given the distinction as the greatest LHW ever?

He was never the champion. Yes he beat Burley, Moore, etc. but he never had that "X" on his head.
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Old 01-02-2008, 09:49 AM   #12
My dinner with Conteh
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Default Re: How Important is the Title Really?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ironchamp
My sentiments exactly but if that is the case why is Ezzard Charles given the distinction as the greatest LHW ever?

He was never the champion. Yes he beat Burley, Moore, etc. but he never had that "X" on his head.


Good point, but the fact that Charles was offered to fight for the heavyweight title 'instead' makes it a slightly different situation.
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Old 01-02-2008, 09:56 AM   #13
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Default Re: How Important is the Title Really?

Fighter A. There seems to be little difference aside from the fact that A gets the title. Champs get more credit, of course.
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Old 01-02-2008, 10:07 AM   #14
ironchamp
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Default Re: How Important is the Title Really?

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Originally Posted by My dinner with Conteh
Good point, but the fact that Charles was offered to fight for the heavyweight title 'instead' makes it a slightly different situation.
True indeed, but the fact remains when assessing his LHW career, his HW accomplishments shouldnt be taken into account. Which is why its hard for me to rank him at #1 at LHW. I prefer giving the accolades to the "Fighter A's" of the division though I do make exceptions.

Also when assessing Lennox Lewis's career, I feel that he was a "Fighter B" up until 1999 when he beat Holyfield. He has a pretty good resume but pre 1999 and his post 1999 wins are for the most part his signature wins.
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Old 01-02-2008, 10:13 AM   #15
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Default Re: How Important is the Title Really?

The title? Is that one of the many alphabet belts or is that the undisputed championship?
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