Padded Record List

[LeonMcS]

Might also be worth noting with Green he had a year off with a shoulder injury after his fourth fight, as well as a change of trainers a couple of times. And Mumtaz was a eleventh hour substitute after a few opponents pulled out, the original opponent lined up for that fight would've been a ripper.

[Kegsy]

Originally Posted by atigerofold

Kegsy, some good analysis you have done.....but your use of part of the figures and not the whole story, provides some bias....Each of the padded records list - fighters you provide, and their matchings with these mostly "red squares" from the boxrec files, do have other associated risks (when contemplating a match)......the red square brigades do not always measure up to a total lack of danger, particularly if you are trying to match up your developing, younger fighter; selection of these redsquare fighters, is not always a "soft" step up the the development ladder....

As an ex fight trainer and boxer, I can say that there are are more types of information in the risk management basket to also ponder about, before deciding who to put your boy in with.....

As a quick example, your statistics of Andrew Green, and his eight wins....on the face of your presented statistical analysis, we get the feeling he is being craddled in his development by his trainer/promotor; but when I put myself in his trainers shoes for a second, and looked at the last bloke he fought - Mumtaz, I see Mumtaz ko'd Sherrington, and also see that Mumtaz had fought a number of eight rounders...yes, I see Mumtaz had won only 8 out of 37, but had knocked out 6 of those eight.... If I was training Andrew Green, and he was fighting just his second six rounder, I would have picked Mumtaz, as a small step, but still would have worried about Mumtaz being a danger for my protege Andrew Green.....there is more too the story than 8 wins from 37 fights, is what I am trying to say...

Your analysis will/might motivate officials to do further investigation into the fighters they tick off as being up to it; we might see a shift towards license suspension or scratching these continual losers off future boxing cards.....this is as very difficult thing to gauge though....looking at some of the losers lists who your "Padded Record" brigade have fought, I see quite a few fighters who have comebacks.....who had fought eight / ten rounders two years ago, then had a two - year retirement, then had the typical comeback, where they had two to four losing fights, before they get a win, (but who rarely ascend the ladder).

Another thing about your analysis, is you talk about imports, many of these losers are not "imports" in the sense of flying in and out on the night from the Phillipines to get a bit of cash and go back home rich man....many of these imports are actually people who have immigrated to Auz and get Auz citizenship.

I know you are trying to assist boxing by your analysis; ethics, health and safety need to jump into the match making mix also.

Do we provide a statistical formula to persuade or demand matchmakers to not select "redsquare"(boxrec) fighters? (Predicting that the answer will be a big No )

Should we turn the heat up on some fighters to take a bigger chance ? (Answer : YES)
How bigger chance would you suggest?

Fair call mate, everyone has injuries/late changes in opponents & you make some great points, hopefully some of these boys do step it up.


As you will see later on many in the top 10 have had 20+ professional bouts, whereas most i have explained so far are just prospects which have had some record padding, but probably will step it up over the next 12-18 months you would hope.

[Kegsy]

Originally Posted by LeonMcS

Might also be worth noting with Green he had a year off with a shoulder injury after his fourth fight, as well as a change of trainers a couple of times. And Mumtaz was a eleventh hour substitute after a few opponents pulled out, the original opponent lined up for that fight would've been a ripper.

I can just see when Mark De Mori's name comes up TC, Sally & Leon will own this thread.

[atigerofold]

lI changed some of my text Kegsy, it was a big response, and I needed to post it in order to read it back to myself, sorry...

[Dr Gonzo]

most unpadded record? Pistol paz?

[Kegsy]

Originally Posted by Dr Gonzo

most unpadded record? Pistol paz?

Pistol Paz Viejo sure did take on all comers.
Didnt he have something like 17 bouts in 1 year.

[Kegsy]

Originally Posted by atigerofold

lI changed some of my text Kegsy, it was a big response, and I needed to post it in order to read it back to myself, sorry...

All good mate....debate & ideas is always fun.

[perfect jet]

Great thread kegs. Keep at it.

[The Spider]

Originally Posted by Kegsy

As you will see later on many in the top 10 have had 20+ professional bouts, whereas most i have explained so far are just prospects which have had some record padding, but probably will step it up over the next 12-18 months you would hope.

Fair call. It's the fighters who have spent a large part of their career beating mismatched opponents that ought to be highlighted in an exercise such as this.

Not everyone here will choose to post in this thread. But everyone here will read it

[boxon123]

I Have a Question. How can Aussies not fight lesser boxers when there are so few of them? There is no promoter in Australia that can afford to bring overseas opponents of any sort of caliber. Just a Thought!

[perfect jet]

Originally Posted by boxon123

I Have a Question. How can Aussies not fight lesser boxers when there are so few of them? There is no promoter in Australia that can afford to bring overseas opponents of any sort of caliber. Just a Thought!

Thats partly true. But you saying their arent better thai's, indos, filo's than the ones that are brought here? Its not like they arent affordable....local promoters/managers want an underweight punching bag at minimum cost. Pathetic.

[boxon123]

Originally Posted by perfect jet

Thats partly true. But you saying their arent better thai's, indos, filo's than the ones that are brought here? Its not like they arent affordable....local promoters/managers want an underweight punching bag at minimum cost. Pathetic.

The only really good ones I have seen from the countries you mentioned are really small guys.

[TCboxa]

Originally Posted by perfect jet

You sure?? Altamura has had him from the start as far as i know. What do you mean whilst he was here in australia?....every fight has been in oz bar one. Billy trains him, not his manager.

Whilst Billy is the trainer, he has the final say on who Paul would have been fighting, similar to how he does with who Dib fights however he isnt Dibs manager. A trainer usually knows which is the better fight for their charge depending on if they are looking for an easy route or willing to fight anyone and everyone.

Mike and Dunkin havent matched him for any fights in AUS to my knowledge.

[perfect jet]

Originally Posted by TCboxa

Whilst Billy is the trainer, he has the final say on who Paul would have been fighting, similar to how he does with who Dib fights however he isnt Dibs manager. A trainer usually knows which is the better fight for their charge depending on if they are looking for an easy route or willing to fight anyone and everyone.

Mike and Dunkin havent matched him for any fights in AUS to my knowledge.

I think you will find the manager has a lot of say in who paul fights.

[perfect jet]

Originally Posted by boxon123

The only really good ones I have seen from the countries you mentioned are really small guys.

.

The asian countries have lots of guys around feather, lightweight etc. im not saying they need to be the world rated guys...but i can rattle off a list of filo's i know were knocked back as opponents for local fighters, instead the matchmaker wanted an easier opponent or a smaller fighter.