Boxing  

Forum Home Boxing Forum European British Classic Aussie MMA Training
Go Back   Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > Classic Boxing Forum


View Poll Results: Which fighter should have had a re-match with Johnson while Johnson was champ?
GunBoat Smith 8 80.00%
Jack O'brien 5 50.00%
Jim Battling Johnson 3 30.00%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 10. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 03-03-2012, 01:40 PM   #16
mcvey
P4P King
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: The Garden Of England
Posts: 21,318
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Which of the following fighters who fought Johnson while Johnson was champion des

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightcrawler View Post
from my reading of the report, it was ringside and wired to new york. certainly not definitive in accuracy but quite clear in opinion that jack johnson was battered
Several reports, several different accounts, one states Johnson toyed with the challenger until breaking his arm , it also states he was "hog fat and rusty from inactivity".

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
mcvey is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 03-03-2012, 01:59 PM   #17
Nightcrawler
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Canada!!!!
Posts: 2,215
vCash: 500
Default Re: Which of the following fighters who fought Johnson while Johnson was champion des

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcvey View Post
Several reports, several different accounts, one states Johnson toyed with the challenger until breaking his arm , it also states he was "hog fat and rusty from inactivity".

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
as a general aside, how do you typically resolve varying reports and compensate for potential racial or regional bias' in newspaper documention? How do you personally reach a consensus as to the winner/true texture of a fight?
Nightcrawler is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2012, 02:08 PM   #18
kingfisher3
Contender
ESB Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: south london
Posts: 684
vCash: 500
Default Re: Which of the following fighters who fought Johnson while Johnson was champion des

of all johnsons challengers jefferies seems to have been the most likely to do better in a rematch. most likely not definitely, and do better not win
kingfisher3 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2012, 02:16 PM   #19
mcvey
P4P King
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: The Garden Of England
Posts: 21,318
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Which of the following fighters who fought Johnson while Johnson was champion des

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightcrawler View Post
as a general aside, how do you typically resolve varying reports and compensate for potential racial or regional bias' in newspaper documention? How do you personally reach a consensus as to the winner/true texture of a fight?
Well,I would say a same day ringside report ,preferably with a name attached ,would be regarded as sufficient.As you have alluded to , the problem with black and white contests of that era ,especially ones concerning Jack Johnson, is that there is a possibility of some bias by certain writers. There is a poster on here named Senya, he has a site with some excellent first hand reports that I would recommend.
mcvey is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2012, 02:21 PM   #20
Nightcrawler
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Canada!!!!
Posts: 2,215
vCash: 500
Default Re: Which of the following fighters who fought Johnson while Johnson was champion des

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcvey View Post
Well,I would say a same day ringside report ,preferably with a name attached ,would be regarded as sufficient.As you have alluded to , the problem with black and white contests of that era ,especially ones concerning Jack Johnson, is that there is a possibility of some bias by certain writers. There is a poster on here named Senya, he has a site with some excellent first hand reports that I would recommend.
appreciate the direction mcvey. i'll definitely check that out.
Nightcrawler is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2012, 02:32 PM   #21
mcvey
P4P King
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: The Garden Of England
Posts: 21,318
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Which of the following fighters who fought Johnson while Johnson was champion des

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightcrawler View Post
appreciate the direction mcvey. i'll definitely check that out.
You are very welcome, here is another excellent site.Along with a link to Senya

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
mcvey is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2012, 05:46 PM   #22
Mendoza
Dominating a decade
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 14,102
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Which of the following fighters who fought Johnson while Johnson was champion des

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightcrawler View Post
so i'm REAL new to the historical, newspaper research that you guys are proficient in but i did run across this headline (downloading full article now)

JACK JOHNSON CLOSE TO DEFEAT; Negro Champion Barely Saved in Paris from a Knockout by "Battling" Jim Johnson. HIS LEFT ARM BROKEN Hissed and Jeered as His Opponent, Three Shades Blacker, Batters Him ;- Decision, a Draw.

It was from the NY times, December 20th

Valid source? Second hand?
Yes it is valid. You can also see Gunboat Smith cold clocking Johnson and O'brien making him look bad at the NY Times archives.
Mendoza is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2012, 08:22 PM   #23
mcvey
P4P King
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: The Garden Of England
Posts: 21,318
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Which of the following fighters who fought Johnson while Johnson was champion des

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mendoza View Post
Yes it is valid. You can also see Gunboat Smith cold clocking Johnson and O'brien making him look bad at the NY Times archives.

" Cold Clocking"????

I guess you will never understand what a primary source consists of .

This thread achieved the opposite reaction to the one you wanted didn't it?

Just one question , would you say that the sworn testimony of Gunboat Smith ,given in a taped interview, was valid?
mcvey is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2012, 04:32 AM   #24
lufcrazy
requiescat in pace
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: England, Up North
Posts: 22,608
vCash: 330
Default Re: Which of the following fighters who fought Johnson while Johnson was champion des

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcvey View Post
Let us assume ,for the sake of argument you are correct. Jack Johnson was 35 years old when he fought Battling Jim, he had taken part in 2 fights in 4, and a half years, all the while living it up, and abusing his body. He still managed a draw with Battling Jim ,although he had broken a bone in his arm early in the contest. Let us assume Johnson is willing to give Battling Jim a rematch ,given that the first fight was a stinker due to Johnson's injury and lack of condition, given that the crowd booed both men lustily the Champion because he did not come up to expectations ,and the challenger ,because he was unable to take advantage of it. Where was the demand for such a rematch?
Let us further assume that Johnson quite naturally , needs time for his broken arm to heal , as Battling Jim fought his next fight inside three months later , lost it, and the two after that ,[in fact he went eight contests without posting a win.]
This gives

1.A promoter how long to whip up any interest for a rematch?

2. A healed Johnson how long to train for such a rematch?

It was never a feasible option was it?
I'm not saying there was any demand for the fight.

I'm saying out of the 3 options only one actually contested the title therefore wins the thread question by default. A sparring session means little, a 6 round no decision fight is just as bad but is recorded, a ten round draw is the only legitimate fight therefore has to "win" the thread.
lufcrazy is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2012, 05:06 AM   #25
mcvey
P4P King
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: The Garden Of England
Posts: 21,318
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Which of the following fighters who fought Johnson while Johnson was champion des

Quote:
Originally Posted by lufcrazy View Post
I'm not saying there was any demand for the fight.

I'm saying out of the 3 options only one actually contested the title therefore wins the thread question by default. A sparring session means little, a 6 round no decision fight is just as bad but is recorded, a ten round draw is the only legitimate fight therefore has to "win" the thread.
I know you are not, in addressing my reply to your post, I intended no such suggestion , entirely my fault for attaching it to your post.
mcvey is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2012, 01:29 PM   #26
lufcrazy
requiescat in pace
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: England, Up North
Posts: 22,608
vCash: 330
Default Re: Which of the following fighters who fought Johnson while Johnson was champion des

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcvey View Post
I know you are not, in addressing my reply to your post, I intended no such suggestion , entirely my fault for attaching it to your post.
No worries mate
lufcrazy is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2012, 06:26 AM   #27
Mendoza
Dominating a decade
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 14,102
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Which of the following fighters who fought Johnson while Johnson was champion des

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcvey View Post
Several reports, several different accounts, one states Johnson toyed with the challenger until breaking his arm , it also states he was "hog fat and rusty from inactivity".

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
There is also a report that suggests the crowd did not believe the injury happened until late in the fight.


Jack was hog fat? Well Jim Battling ( 17-6-1 going into this match ) is listed at 5"11". I did not see a weight for this fight, but he was 226 pounds for his next fight 3 months later. 226 at 5'11 was fat in those days. Funny you never mention the opponents shape.


This is just another example of your double standards, and one way research.
Mendoza is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2012, 06:54 AM   #28
mcvey
P4P King
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: The Garden Of England
Posts: 21,318
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Which of the following fighters who fought Johnson while Johnson was champion des

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mendoza View Post
There is also a report that suggests the crowd did not believe the injury happened until late in the fight.


Jack was hog fat? Well Jim Battling ( 17-6-1 going into this match ) is listed at 5"11". I did not see a weight for this fight, but he was 226 pounds for his next fight 3 months later. 226 at 5'11 was fat in those days. Funny you never mention the opponents shape.


This is just another example of your double standards, and one way research.

Battling Jim


[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]


[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]


From CBZ.Johnson was not a very good boxer but he was a big heavyweight - tall, heavy and strong; He was more of a sparring partner type; In 1913, Jim fought Jack Johnson for the Heavyweight Championship of the World



You really are desperate ,aren't you?
mcvey is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2012, 06:56 AM   #29
DonBoxer
The Lion!
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: In Vitalis cut.
Posts: 4,033
vCash: 75
Default Re: Which of the following fighters who fought Johnson while Johnson was champion des

I think has to be Jim, its the only real option.
DonBoxer is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2012, 10:28 AM   #30
Hookie
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Chambersburg, PA
Posts: 2,459
vCash: 500
Default Re: Which of the following fighters who fought Johnson while Johnson was champion des

Who gives a shlt? Johnson should have fought some rematches vs. some of the guys he had fought before winning the title. Where are you going with this?
Hookie is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Reply

Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > Classic Boxing Forum

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump





All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:31 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Boxing News 24 Forum 2013