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View Poll Results: Which fighter should have had a re-match with Johnson while Johnson was champ?
GunBoat Smith 8 80.00%
Jack O'brien 5 50.00%
Jim Battling Johnson 3 30.00%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 10. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 03-05-2012, 11:50 AM   #31
mcvey
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Default Re: Which of the following fighters who fought Johnson while Johnson was champion des

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i'm very interested in this type of research and historical accuracy as of late so i just might. thanks mcvey
This link shows the NY State Boxing Commission, banned black and white contests in 1913 .Langford and Smith were to have fought but were not allowed to do so, in NY.

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THis link shows the UK opposition to mixed fights in 1914.

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Old 03-05-2012, 01:02 PM   #32
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Default Re: Which of the following fighters who fought Johnson while Johnson was champion des

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Who gives a shlt? Johnson should have fought some rematches vs. some of the guys he had fought before winning the title. Where are you going with this?
Ya know, I'm just here for McVey versus Mendoza.
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Old 03-06-2012, 05:57 AM   #33
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Default Re: Which of the following fighters who fought Johnson while Johnson was champion des

I hope these links work as they will add to the thread. Below are the fights of O'Brien, Smith, and Battling Johnson. All three fights happened while Jack Johnson was champion. It seems like Jack Johnson was lucky not to lose at least of the below fights here.

Damage control time for Mcvey in 10...9...8...

Jack Johnson vs Gunboat Smith

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Jack Johnson vs Jack O'brien

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Jack Johnson vs Jim Battling Johnson

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Old 03-06-2012, 05:58 AM   #34
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Default Re: Which of the following fighters who fought Johnson while Johnson was champion des

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Ya know, I'm just here for McVey versus Mendoza.
I would charge for this stuff, but I get a kick out exposing double standards and forgetful posters
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Old 03-06-2012, 06:25 AM   #35
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Default Re: Which of the following fighters who fought Johnson while Johnson was champion des

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Originally Posted by Mendoza View Post
I hope these links work as they will add to the thread. Below are the fights of O'Brien, Smith, and Battling Johnson. All three fights happened while Jack Johnson was champion. It seems like Jack Johnson was lucky not to lose at least of the below fights here.

Damage control time for Mcvey in 10...9...8...

Jack Johnson vs Gunboat Smith

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]


Jack Johnson vs Jack O'brien

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Jack Johnson vs Jim Battling Johnson

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

None of these occurred in NY, post a PRIMARY SOURCE , such as the Philadelphia Inquirer ,who had a reporter ringside for the O Brien fight, held in Philadelphia ,,O Brien's home town. That paper said Johnson clearly beat O Brien .
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Old 03-06-2012, 06:26 AM   #36
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Default Re: Which of the following fighters who fought Johnson while Johnson was champion des

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I would charge for this stuff, but I get a kick out exposing double standards and forgetful posters
You get a kick out of telling lies.
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Old 03-06-2012, 06:33 AM   #37
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Default Re: Which of the following fighters who fought Johnson while Johnson was champion des

I voted for Gunboat receiving a "rematch" .... because I think that's fair considering the fact that his fight with Johnson didn't make the record books in the first place.
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Old 03-07-2012, 06:45 AM   #38
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Default Re: Which of the following fighters who fought Johnson while Johnson was champion des

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You get a kick out of telling lies.
Lies? That is you, not I. Don't you wish these fight reports would go away.
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Old 03-07-2012, 07:04 AM   #39
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Default Re: Which of the following fighters who fought Johnson while Johnson was champion des

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Lies? That is you, not I. Don't you wish these fight reports would go away.
I welcome any information that might increase my poor knowledge of the art of Pugilistica.
However , I prefer said information to be from a PRIMARY SOURCE so that I may give it some credence.
As you have the time to trawl for info ,why not spend it accessing first hand reports that we can give some gravitas to ?

Also ,please can you produce the result of the Johnson v Smith FIGHT ,the one that you indicate merited a rematch, Box rec,The Ring Yearbook ,& CBZ to name just a few appear to have missed it.

Here is a somewhat different version of the Smith/Johnson affair.

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Last edited by mcvey; 03-16-2012 at 07:10 AM.
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Old 03-08-2012, 05:52 AM   #40
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Default Re: Which of the following fighters who fought Johnson while Johnson was champion des

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None of these occurred in NY, post a PRIMARY SOURCE , such as the Philadelphia Inquirer ,who had a reporter ringside for the O Brien fight, held in Philadelphia ,,O Brien's home town. That paper said Johnson clearly beat O Brien .

Wilkes-Barre Times Leader had O'Brien winning three rounds, with two even, and 5th round to Johnson (same report was printed in NY Sun and Washington Herald). NY Times ruled it a draw. Wire in multiple newspapers (for example, San Francisco Call) had it a draw.

Trenton Times reported that the referee stated he thought O'Brien the winner by a shade.

Sports editor of Philadelphia Inquirer in May 23 issue wrote: "A half dozen writers, for instance, gave Johnson the credit of having won the bout, but no two of them agreed as to the distance by which he won, and if you read all these accounts you must have come to the conclusion that he won any distance from a whisker to a city block. And it was the same with the able gentlemen who espoused the O'Brien cause. Some declared that he won all the way, and that but for his willingness to take the initiative there would have been no milling at all, while others gave him the decision solely for the splendid showing he made against such a tremendous physical handicap."


Wow-- a 162 pound man on the down side of his career did this? By the way Trenton is local enough to Philly and it has the ref's opinion on who was better! That man was O'brien. Wilkes-Barre is in Pennsylvania, close enough to be local too. You can not say they do not count. They covered the fight!
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Old 03-08-2012, 06:13 AM   #41
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Default Re: Which of the following fighters who fought Johnson while Johnson was champion des

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Originally Posted by Mendoza View Post
Wilkes-Barre Times Leader had O'Brien winning three rounds, with two even, and 5th round to Johnson (same report was printed in NY Sun and Washington Herald). NY Times ruled it a draw. Wire in multiple newspapers (for example, San Francisco Call) had it a draw.

Trenton Times reported that the referee stated he thought O'Brien the winner by a shade.

Sports editor of Philadelphia Inquirer in May 23 issue wrote: "A half dozen writers, for instance, gave Johnson the credit of having won the bout, but no two of them agreed as to the distance by which he won, and if you read all these accounts you must have come to the conclusion that he won any distance from a whisker to a city block. And it was the same with the able gentlemen who espoused the O'Brien cause. Some declared that he won all the way, and that but for his willingness to take the initiative there would have been no milling at all, while others gave him the decision solely for the splendid showing he made against such a tremendous physical handicap."


Wow-- a 162 pound man on the down side of his career did this? By the way Trenton is local enough to Philly and it has the ref's opinion on who was better! That man was O'brien. Wilkes-Barre is in Pennsylvania, close enough to be local too. You can not say they do not count. They covered the fight!
You are quoting Box Rec.! You were the one who said they were very unreliable with facts,and often get it wrong.
ps Did you like the pics? I'll make you famous.
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Old 03-08-2012, 06:24 AM   #42
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Default Re: Which of the following fighters who fought Johnson while Johnson was champion des

I was using direct quotes from press, with headquarters in close proximity to the fight. I also posted the referee's thoughts and he felt O'brien was the better by a shade.

I have a question for you. How many all time great heavies were Ko'd by a super middles, floored by other middles, according to some press accounts out boxed by another super middle, fouled out in fights, quit in fights, and never had title matches with his 3-5 best challengers?

Please add to that question if you can!!!! Now I have to run. Some of us have work and responsibilities outside of a boxing forum.
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Old 03-08-2012, 06:29 AM   #43
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Default Re: Which of the following fighters who fought Johnson while Johnson was champion des

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Originally Posted by Mendoza View Post
I was using direct quotes from press, with headquarters in close proximity to the fight. I also posted the referee's thoughts and he felt O'brien was the better by a shade.

I have a question for you. How many all time great heavies were Ko'd by a super middles, floored by other middles, according to some press accounts out boxed by another super middle, fouled out in fights, quit in fights, and never had title matches with his 3-5 best challengers?

Please add to that question if you can!!!! Now I have to run. Some of us have work and responsibilities outside of a boxing forum.

Found that Johnson/ Smith FIGHT yet?


Tell them to make sure those straps on the jacket are nice and tight.
Dont worry ,it's supposed to be worn back to front.

Last edited by mcvey; 03-08-2012 at 06:41 AM.
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Old 03-10-2012, 07:03 AM   #44
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Default Re: Which of the following fighters who fought Johnson while Johnson was champion des

Hey McVey,

I wish to edit the below statement:.

How many all time great heavies were Ko'd by a super middles, floored by other middles, according to some press accounts out boxed by another super middle, fouled out in fights, quit in fights, and never had title matches with his 3-5 best challengers? "

In his career Johnson did not quit twice in fights as I have mentioned before. The new number is THREE TIMES. I'm not talking about when Gunboat Smith gave your papa Jack some chin music, or the Battling Jim Johnson fight when Jack was lucky to escape with a draw. Have fun researching which 3rd fight I am talking about and rememeber to tell your doctor to up your Meds when you go on line
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Old 03-10-2012, 08:14 AM   #45
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Default Re: Which of the following fighters who fought Johnson while Johnson was champion des

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Hey McVey,

I wish to edit the below statement:.

How many all time great heavies were Ko'd by a super middles, floored by other middles, according to some press accounts out boxed by another super middle, fouled out in fights, quit in fights, and never had title matches with his 3-5 best challengers? "

In his career Johnson did not quit twice in fights as I have mentioned before. The new number is THREE TIMES. I'm not talking about when Gunboat Smith gave your papa Jack some chin music, or the Battling Jim Johnson fight when Jack was lucky to escape with a draw. Have fun researching which 3rd fight I am talking about and rememeber to tell your doctor to up your Meds when you go on line
Still having trouble with words over 3 letters? Keep plugging away.
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