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Old 03-15-2012, 12:03 AM   #16
Seamus
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Default Re: Are there people that rank Mike Tyson above Evander Holyfield?

I rank Tyson over Holyfield as I prefer his short but incendiary rise and domination to Holyfield's lower level longevity. Both are great in their own ways.
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Old 03-15-2012, 12:26 AM   #17
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Default Re: Are there people that rank Mike Tyson above Evander Holyfield?

I rank Tyson above Holyfield. They fought after Tyson got out of prison, he sucked then. Tyson on 1988 is better than Holyfield.
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Old 03-15-2012, 08:10 AM   #18
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Default Re: Are there people that rank Mike Tyson above Evander Holyfield?

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Originally Posted by Asterion View Post
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I've seen some rankings where Tyson is above Holyfield. What are the arguments?

While Holyfield beat Tyson, he did it in 1996, almost ten years after Mike's prime. Apart from that, they both beat fine opponents. Tyson, however, was very dominant during 86-90. Holyfield wasn't dominant.
Taking in Holyfield's Cruiserweight dominance plus his reigns as heavyweight champ,I'd rate him above Tyson. But by Evander's career soley at the heavier poundage,I'd put Tyson first. Far more dominant resume.
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Old 03-15-2012, 08:32 AM   #19
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Default Re: Are there people that rank Mike Tyson above Evander Holyfield?

I'm not particularly bothered either way. I think a good argument for either man being ahead can be made.

Tyson was far more dominant, but Holy beat a still very good Tyson twice, and may (Not entirely convinced) have done the same in '91.
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Old 03-15-2012, 10:08 AM   #20
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Default Re: Are there people that rank Mike Tyson above Evander Holyfield?

The basic breakdown for me is resume + longevity vs dominance. Throw in the actual H2H results we have, and I feel confident in saying Holyfield's the greater fighter. Mike was something else, of course, and depending on your criteria I could see a reasonable case for him. It just isn't really there on mine.
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Old 03-15-2012, 02:55 PM   #21
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Default Re: Are there people that rank Mike Tyson above Evander Holyfield?

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The basic breakdown for me is resume + longevity vs dominance. Throw in the actual H2H results we have, and I feel confident in saying Holyfield's the greater fighter. Mike was something else, of course, and depending on your criteria I could see a reasonable case for him. It just isn't really there on mine.
Very well-stated. Both arguments are good, I just feel Holyfields are a bit better, and its his h2h wins that set him over the edge.

Mike was a world champion, not yet shot, and Holyfield was the one on the fade when they fought. Evander's two wins over Tyson ARE meaningful, period, and his edge when the two are compared.
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Old 03-15-2012, 04:17 PM   #22
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Default Re: Are there people that rank Mike Tyson above Evander Holyfield?

prime tyson beats holyfield but overall evander probably edges it .
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Old 03-16-2012, 02:17 AM   #23
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Default Re: Are there people that rank Mike Tyson above Evander Holyfield?

I rate Tyson above Holyfield.

Evander was very inconsistant, even in some of his wins, just look at the gimmie Bert Cooper or Alex Stewart fights. Also IMO with no fan man entering in the Bowe rematch he looses that one too.

When Tyson was on he was on, period, in his reign of terror he took on all comers and CONVINCINGLY either KTFO them or won loopsided decisions plus don't take a piss or get another drink because the fight could have been over when you came back......

I give him credit for defeating a very faded Tyson twice but in all reality in his other signature fights against ACTIVE prime championship fighters, not sitting in the can for a few years, Bowe and Lewis, he is really 1-4........and 1-1 against a chinney LThwt..........I don't count the Ruiz fights because he was truly done by then.
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Old 03-16-2012, 02:37 AM   #24
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Default Re: Are there people that rank Mike Tyson above Evander Holyfield?

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I rate Tyson above Holyfield.

Evander was very inconsistant, even in some of his wins, just look at the gimmie Bert Cooper or Alex Stewart fights. Also IMO with no fan man entering in the Bowe rematch he looses that one too.

When Tyson was on he was on, period, in his reign of terror he took on all comers and CONVINCINGLY either KTFO them or won loopsided decisions plus don't take a piss or get another drink because the fight could have been over when you came back......

I give him credit for defeating a very faded Tyson twice but in all reality in his other signature fights against ACTIVE prime championship fighters, not sitting in the can for a few years, Bowe and Lewis, he is really 1-4........and 1-1 against a chinney LThwt..........I don't count the Ruiz fights because he was truly done by then.
Well, there's no doubt in my mind Tyson was ready to really pour it on in the first fight. He had his best round by far in the 5th, connecting on an array of punches, throwing combos, very aggressive and undaunted by the first four of frustrating grappling. He comes out for the 6th and starts the same way. It's as if Evander thought to himself 'I better snuff this shit out' then came the headbutt and cut. Followed by a low blow that had Tyson shaken up, then the off balance KD. All within moments.

Had that even been 1991 Tyson in there (think Ruddock wars), shit wouldve gotten grimey. He sure as hell wouldnt be looking at the referee.
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Old 03-16-2012, 05:28 AM   #25
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Default Re: Are there people that rank Mike Tyson above Evander Holyfield?

I rank Tyson above Holyfield though I can easily see why someone wouldn't. I think Tysons dominance over the division in the late 80's as well as his post prison comeback solidify his position over Holyfield, although Holyfield had many great fights he lacked dominance. Holyfield also continues to hurt his career (and has done since the early 00s) by continuing to fight, I know most people don't count the last 8 or so years when evaluating Holyfields career but if he was winning titles and defending them people would acknowledge it, almost like a "if he wins he's a greater fighter but if he loses it doesn't count" kind of thing.
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Old 03-16-2012, 05:46 AM   #26
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Default Re: Are there people that rank Mike Tyson above Evander Holyfield?

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Originally Posted by sauhund II View Post
Evander was very inconsistant, even in some of his wins, just look at the gimmie Bert Cooper or Alex Stewart fights. Also IMO with no fan man entering in the Bowe rematch he looses that one too.
That's the funny thing with Holyfield...at times, when he was expected to win big or was a huge favourite, he looked less than stellar.
For example, he nearly came a cropper against Cooper where Coop was brought in just to be an opponent, and he looked very ordinary against Czyz as well. He didn't set the world alight in his second fight with Stewart either.

Yet, when an underdog or expected to lose, he rose to the occasion. I'm sure the different levels of motivation played a huge part in that, as well as the fact that certain sportsmen just enjoy the underdog status and I personally think Evander was one of those.
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Old 03-16-2012, 08:04 AM   #27
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Default Re: Are there people that rank Mike Tyson above Evander Holyfield?

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Originally Posted by FJAY360 View Post
I rank Tyson above Holyfield though I can easily see why someone wouldn't. I think Tysons dominance over the division in the late 80's as well as his post prison comeback solidify his position over Holyfield, although Holyfield had many great fights he lacked dominance. Holyfield also continues to hurt his career (and has done since the early 00s) by continuing to fight, I know most people don't count the last 8 or so years when evaluating Holyfields career but if he was winning titles and defending them people would acknowledge it, almost like a "if he wins he's a greater fighter but if he loses it doesn't count" kind of thing.
Love him to death, but yeah that's the Roberto Duran treatment if you will. I dont know that Holyfield approaches that level though: In terms of both the wins and mulligans alike.
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Old 03-16-2012, 09:34 AM   #28
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Default Re: Are there people that rank Mike Tyson above Evander Holyfield?

I can see a case for either 2bh.

I use to be a big hater of Holyfield, for obvious reasons, but recently ive come to admire the man and become great fan.

But Holyfield is kinda inconsistent, i forgive him for losing to Bowe, but he should not really have lost against a guy like Moorer, who i dont really rate that high 2bh.

I pick Tyson to beat any version of Mooorer with relative ease. I also pick Tyson over Bowe too. But thats another story.

Tyson gets a lot of sh*t for his losses and some deservedly so, but when it comes to Evander, its all swept under the carpet and theres always some medical excuse.

But you cant argue with the guy, he has a win over Bowe, 2 over Tyson and a draw with Lewis.
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Old 03-16-2012, 09:43 AM   #29
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Default Re: Are there people that rank Mike Tyson above Evander Holyfield?

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I can see a case for either 2bh.

I use to be a big hater of Holyfield, for obvious reasons, but recently ive come to admire the man and become great fan.

But Holyfield is kinda inconsistent, i forgive him for losing to Bowe, but he should not really have lost against a guy like Moorer, who i dont really rate that high 2bh.

I pick Tyson to beat any version of Mooorer with relative ease. I also pick Tyson over Bowe too. But thats another story.

Tyson gets a lot of sh*t for his losses and some deservedly so, but when it comes to Evander, its all swept under the carpet and theres always some medical excuse.

But you cant argue with the guy, he has a win over Bowe, 2 over Tyson and a draw with Lewis.
This. Although I've been over it for quite a while.

May as well. They're linked pretty much forever.
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Old 03-16-2012, 10:27 AM   #30
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Default Re: Are there people that rank Mike Tyson above Evander Holyfield?

Could go either way. Wins over the better quality of oppo goes to Holyfield(Moorer, Foreman, Qawi, prime Bowe, and Tyson himself). Dominance goes to Holy. I'd go with Holyfield. Greatest CW of all time and went up to HW to have most of his career and best fights at. Miss both, legends and glad they fought and were willing to face each other though it was late but still huge wins for Holy. Miss Lewis too but boxing goes on and the HW division will heat up again eventually.
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