Boxing  

Forum Home Boxing Forum European British Classic Aussie MMA Training
Go Back   Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > Classic Boxing Forum


View Poll Results: Who Takes it?
Holyfield Decision 19 35.85%
Holyfield KO/TKO 13 24.53%
Liston Decision 5 9.43%
Liston KO/TKO 13 24.53%
Too Close To Call 3 5.66%
Voters: 53. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 03-18-2012, 07:00 AM   #1
Webbiano
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: England
Posts: 2,802
vCash: 500
Default Holyfield Vs Liston

So I'm not exactly an ESB veteran, so I'm not sure if this thread has been made before, but I've certainly never laid eyes on it.

I'd favour Holyfield if he tries to box behind the jab and picks his shots, however if he try's to go to war with Liston like he often did at heavyweight I think he gets in real trouble and could get stopped late

discuss.
Webbiano is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 03-18-2012, 07:15 AM   #2
lufcrazy
requiescat in pace
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: England, Up North
Posts: 22,864
vCash: 330
Default Re: Holyfield Vs Liston

I need time to mull this over.

My first instinct with Holyfield is almost always, he loses in a comeptitive fight.

I'll come back to it once I've thought a bit more but I struggle to picture Holy neutralising the jab.

Holy has better lateral movement and I think he's better at throwing combinations. But is his speed enough that he can parry the jab to the side, land 3-4 shots to the body and head, then step out of rage again before Liston throws his deadly hooks?

My instinct says no.

I'll come back later though.
lufcrazy is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2012, 07:18 AM   #3
frankenfrank
Champion
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 6,516
vCash: 4710
Default Re: Holyfield Vs Liston

Quote:
Originally Posted by Webbiano View Post
So I'm not exactly an ESB veteran, so I'm not sure if this thread has been made before, but I've certainly never laid eyes on it.

I'd favour Holyfield if he tries to box behind the jab and picks his shots, however if he try's to go to war with Liston like he often did at heavyweight I think he gets in real trouble and could get stopped late

discuss.
Next time remember 2 make d poll public , it's a selectable option .
If Holyfield tries 2 box behind his jab he might get outboxed . However , if he slugs with Liston whom was no Bowe or Tyson and Liston does not try 2 maintain long distance in which he has a chance then he finds out that Holyfield was no Floyd Patterson and Holyfield stops Liston late and possibly early . Liston's chin was not better than Tyson/Mercer/Bowe/Douglas , he just never had d right opponents 2 test it , and Holyfield is underrated as a puncher while Liston extremely overrated .
frankenfrank is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2012, 07:23 AM   #4
lufcrazy
requiescat in pace
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: England, Up North
Posts: 22,864
vCash: 330
Default Re: Holyfield Vs Liston

Quote:
Originally Posted by frankenfrank View Post
Next time remember 2 make d poll public , it's a selectable option .
If Holyfield tries 2 box behind his jab he might get outboxed . However , if he slugs with Liston whom was no Bowe or Tyson and Liston does not try 2 maintain long distance in which he has a chance then he finds out that Holyfield was no Floyd Patterson and Holyfield stops Liston late and possibly early . Liston's chin was not better than Tyson/Mercer/Bowe/Douglas , he just never had d right opponents 2 test it , and Holyfield is underrated as a puncher while Liston extremely overrated .
it annoys me when polls aren't public
lufcrazy is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2012, 07:42 AM   #5
Boxed Ears
Smugly Savvy Feelings
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Pazinfowit, Esperantia
Posts: 24,953
vCash: 26664
Default Re: Holyfield Vs Liston

The mythical Listonosaurus would win by early round knockout, with ease. The real-world Liston, who's really the real-world height, weight and speed that he really, truly, actually was, would lose by mid to late-round kayo to the real great between the two.
Boxed Ears is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2012, 08:07 AM   #6
McGrain
Diamond Dog
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 37,434
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Holyfield Vs Liston

I wonder which Holyfield you have in mind? It does make a difference.

I guess I'll go for the version that beat Bowe. Bowe had a lot of the same attributes - good at all ranges, technically very schooled, superior reach, good chin. Additionally, Holyfield still has a great chin here, if perhpas not the pure granite the roided version would sport for Tyson and the additional mobility the lighter weight brings I believe would stand him in good stead.

Still, Liston has a superior jab to Bowe and Liston was arguably never truly KO'd until the ancient version was put down by Martin, so Liston still has several serious advantages. He's probably not going to get knocked out by the smaller Holyfield, he's going to score well with the jab and he's going to exact a heavy toll on Holyfield when he's on his way in. Holyfield needs to deal with this by staying busy, which isn't assured. Against Lewis the much older Holyfield was very reluctant to be busy because he didn't want to come under Lewis's gun on the way in. That attitude just gets him more as widely outboxed as he was against Lewis.

On the other hand, when he comes in he can't just out-and-out duke it out like he did against Bowe. Liston is more heavy handed generally and his very very best punches are thrown at that kind of range. So what Holyfield has to do, in my opinion, is come inside, fight for balance, keep his feet under control, resist the urge to over-arch or punch for openings that aren't really there.

Against Machen, Liston shortened up his punches dramatically because the heavy stuff was not working and boxed with great physical aggression. As the stronger man here, this strategy might work again, but it's unlikely that Holyfield will be intimidated by the rougher stuff. Era also becomes important here, as does the specific referee. However, if he's protected by era and referee or can just flat out tough out whatever Liston gives him, Holyfield is the more fluid of the two and should prosper here.

If Holyfield comes with the right plan, executes it properly, can keep Liston off-balance inside and deal with the rough side of Sonny's game, I think he can punch out a decision. It wouldn't be pretty though.

I do favour Liston though. I think the job is to big. I think the jab hoovers up some points and does some hurting and I think that Holyfield would get drawn into something more often than is good for him on the inside. I think Liston would put the hurt on him a couple of times, and unless that happened in Liston rounds - rounds he was winning anyway - I think that would be enough to tilt the thing.

A 15 round fight with Joe Cortez refereeing fought in 2000 and I might need to have a re-think.
McGrain is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2012, 08:18 AM   #7
lufcrazy
requiescat in pace
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: England, Up North
Posts: 22,864
vCash: 330
Default Re: Holyfield Vs Liston

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxed Ears View Post
The mythical Listonosaurus would win by early round knockout, with ease. The real-world Liston, who's really the real-world height, weight and speed that he really, truly, actually was, would lose by mid to late-round kayo to the real great between the two.
you do actually genuinely troll on Liston don't you

I think it's to compensate for the over rating that generally happens but still, you can't deny the man is a great hw
lufcrazy is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2012, 08:29 AM   #8
Boxed Ears
Smugly Savvy Feelings
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Pazinfowit, Esperantia
Posts: 24,953
vCash: 26664
Default Re: Holyfield Vs Liston

Quote:
Originally Posted by lufcrazy View Post
you do actually genuinely troll on Liston don't you

I think it's to compensate for the over rating that generally happens but still, you can't deny the man is a great hw
No, he's genuinely utter trash and Patterson from the Moore fight destroys him, like any great fighter in good health would, and actually did.

Yes, you're right, it's only a balance thing, and I consider him an excellent fighter and never had a problem with him until I started seeing him routinely picked to easily destroy guys I consider better and more proven, and it irritated me so many times that I've been driven into a perverse pleasure in downplaying how good I think he really was but you can't see any of this because it's written in black, so hush up about it, alright, mate?
Boxed Ears is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2012, 08:31 AM   #9
lufcrazy
requiescat in pace
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: England, Up North
Posts: 22,864
vCash: 330
Default Re: Holyfield Vs Liston

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxed Ears View Post
No, he's genuinely utter trash and Patterson from the Moore fight destroys him, like any great fighter in good health would, and actually did.

Yes, you're right, it's only a balance thing, and I consider him an excellent fighter and never had a problem with him until I started seeing him routinely picked to destroy guys I consider better and more proven, and it irritated me so many times that I've been driven into a perverse pleasure in downplaying how good I think he really was but you can't see any of this because it's written in black, so hush up about it, alright, mate?
You worhtless piece of shit troll

I'm only messing man, but this writing in black to hide our true opinions is quite fun so i think i'll join in for a bit
lufcrazy is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2012, 08:32 AM   #10
McGrain
Diamond Dog
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 37,434
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Holyfield Vs Liston

Emoticons give it a way a bit lad.
McGrain is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2012, 08:33 AM   #11
lufcrazy
requiescat in pace
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: England, Up North
Posts: 22,864
vCash: 330
Default Re: Holyfield Vs Liston

Quote:
Originally Posted by McGrain View Post
Emoticons give it a way a bit lad.
emoticons? what emoticons?

lufcrazy is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2012, 08:35 AM   #12
Boxed Ears
Smugly Savvy Feelings
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Pazinfowit, Esperantia
Posts: 24,953
vCash: 26664
Default Re: Holyfield Vs Liston



Also, I'm a huge Patterson fan, so this is a great way to vent my rage stemming from that.
Boxed Ears is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2012, 08:39 AM   #13
lufcrazy
requiescat in pace
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: England, Up North
Posts: 22,864
vCash: 330
Default Re: Holyfield Vs Liston

I'm picking Liston!

I think the first few rounds are mega competitive but eventually Liston is able to keep Holyfield on the end of his jab.

Liston takes a points decision, 9-6 type scorecard.

In beating bowe, Holyfield beat a better man then Liston ever would, but Liston's physical attributes make me struggle to pick Holyfield over him.
lufcrazy is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2012, 08:45 AM   #14
Boxed Ears
Smugly Savvy Feelings
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Pazinfowit, Esperantia
Posts: 24,953
vCash: 26664
Default Re: Holyfield Vs Liston

Liston wasn't only more powerful than Bowe...but...ESB Liston is slightly taller and heavier, as well.
Boxed Ears is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2012, 08:47 AM   #15
lufcrazy
requiescat in pace
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: England, Up North
Posts: 22,864
vCash: 330
Default Re: Holyfield Vs Liston

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxed Ears View Post
Liston wasn't only more powerful than Bowe...but...ESB Liston is slightly taller and heavier, as well.
to make up for it, I've just picked foreman to stop liston

take my olive branch and we'll pretend I never picked Liston to beat Holyfield

Although I genuinely do think Liston beats Holyfield
lufcrazy is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Reply

Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > Classic Boxing Forum

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump





All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:39 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Boxing News 24 Forum 2013