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View Poll Results: Who Takes it?
Holyfield Decision 19 35.85%
Holyfield KO/TKO 13 24.53%
Liston Decision 5 9.43%
Liston KO/TKO 13 24.53%
Too Close To Call 3 5.66%
Voters: 53. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 03-18-2012, 09:10 AM   #16
zadfrak
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Default Re: Holyfield Vs Liston

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Originally Posted by McGrain View Post
I wonder which Holyfield you have in mind? It does make a difference.

I guess I'll go for the version that beat Bowe. Bowe had a lot of the same attributes - good at all ranges, technically very schooled, superior reach, good chin. Additionally, Holyfield still has a great chin here, if perhpas not the pure granite the roided version would sport for Tyson and the additional mobility the lighter weight brings I believe would stand him in good stead.

Still, Liston has a superior jab to Bowe and Liston was arguably never truly KO'd until the ancient version was put down by Martin, so Liston still has several serious advantages. He's probably not going to get knocked out by the smaller Holyfield, he's going to score well with the jab and he's going to exact a heavy toll on Holyfield when he's on his way in. Holyfield needs to deal with this by staying busy, which isn't assured. Against Lewis the much older Holyfield was very reluctant to be busy because he didn't want to come under Lewis's gun on the way in. That attitude just gets him more as widely outboxed as he was against Lewis.

On the other hand, when he comes in he can't just out-and-out duke it out like he did against Bowe. Liston is more heavy handed generally and his very very best punches are thrown at that kind of range. So what Holyfield has to do, in my opinion, is come inside, fight for balance, keep his feet under control, resist the urge to over-arch or punch for openings that aren't really there.

Against Machen, Liston shortened up his punches dramatically because the heavy stuff was not working and boxed with great physical aggression. As the stronger man here, this strategy might work again, but it's unlikely that Holyfield will be intimidated by the rougher stuff. Era also becomes important here, as does the specific referee. However, if he's protected by era and referee or can just flat out tough out whatever Liston gives him, Holyfield is the more fluid of the two and should prosper here.

If Holyfield comes with the right plan, executes it properly, can keep Liston off-balance inside and deal with the rough side of Sonny's game, I think he can punch out a decision. It wouldn't be pretty though.

I do favour Liston though. I think the job is to big. I think the jab hoovers up some points and does some hurting and I think that Holyfield would get drawn into something more often than is good for him on the inside. I think Liston would put the hurt on him a couple of times, and unless that happened in Liston rounds - rounds he was winning anyway - I think that would be enough to tilt the thing.

A 15 round fight with Joe Cortez refereeing fought in 2000 and I might need to have a re-think.

Real good take on the fight.

But at the end of the day, the style that Evander does not do as well against is the jabbers. And Liston has the best left hook off a jab of maybe all the heavies. Joe Louis is there but who else really had a great lefthook off a great jab?

I think that left hook is a major problem for Commander Vander. If Sonny had a mediocre lefthook or a swipe like Holmes or Ali had, I think that leaves enough of an opening for Evander to capitalize on & allow him to go to work on Liston. But a deadly lefthook off that great jab is just something I do not like for Evander's defense for 3 minutes a round.

Butr Holyfield has the superior corner. No comparison and that is a huge disadvantage for Liston. And nobody had to tell Evander about pre-fight preparations for opponents & he'd be ready for this guy.

That being said, I think the tactical/corner advantage for Evander just lets him hang in there longer and absorb punishment longer as opposed to winning him the fight. But he sure isn't going out easy and it would be a terrific and physically demanding fight.
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Old 03-18-2012, 02:34 PM   #17
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Default Re: Holyfield Vs Liston

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Originally Posted by Boxed Ears View Post
Liston wasn't only more powerful than Bowe...but...ESB Liston is slightly taller and heavier, as well.
and had a longer reach
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Old 03-18-2012, 02:39 PM   #18
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Default Re: Holyfield Vs Liston

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Originally Posted by lufcrazy View Post
to make up for it, I've just picked foreman to stop liston

take my olive branch and we'll pretend I never picked Liston to beat Holyfield

Although I genuinely do think Liston beats Holyfield
your vcash is a testimony 2 your picks' accuracy .
But at least u tried .
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Old 03-18-2012, 03:11 PM   #19
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Default Re: Holyfield Vs Liston

Holyfield is actually superior on the inside. Of course, it could be dangerous to get into that range, but Holyfield is great at getting in and shifting out and over with angles. Probably as good as any HW at it.

For those talking about Liston's superior jab and heavier punches than Bowe have to mention that Bowe is far more fluid and is faster than Liston. Not just of hand but also of foot. Holyfield is more likely to fight more the Bowe II route due to Liston's reputation as a puncher. How does Liston's workrate compare to Bowe's? I think Liston isn't unsusceptible to being out-worked. If Holy can get in and out without taking too much damage. A coin flip of a fight, really.
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Old 03-18-2012, 03:25 PM   #20
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Default Re: Holyfield Vs Liston

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Originally Posted by frankenfrank View Post
your vcash is a testimony 2 your picks' accuracy .
But at least u tried .
I bet everything on Malignaggi to stop Amir Khan

Since then I've just put my 75 on the selection with the best odds hoping I'll strike lucky.
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Old 03-18-2012, 03:26 PM   #21
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Default Re: Holyfield Vs Liston

If he fights as he did in the bowe rematch, he beats Liston.

If he fights as he did in the first, Liston beats him.
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Old 03-18-2012, 03:32 PM   #22
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Default Re: Holyfield Vs Liston

Quote:
Originally Posted by lufcrazy View Post
I bet everything on Malignaggi to stop Amir Khan

Since then I've just put my 75 on the selection with the best odds hoping I'll strike lucky.
r/were u serious ?
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Old 03-18-2012, 03:34 PM   #23
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Default Re: Holyfield Vs Liston

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Originally Posted by lufcrazy View Post
If he fights as he did in the bowe rematch, he beats Liston.

If he fights as he did in the first, Liston beats him.
he stops liston whether he fights like he did in Bowe #1 / Bowe #2 / Bowe #3 / Tyson #1 / Tyson #2 .
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Old 03-18-2012, 03:41 PM   #24
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Default Re: Holyfield Vs Liston

Holyfield UD

I tried to understand the hype, but no. **** Liston.
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Old 03-18-2012, 03:54 PM   #25
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Default Re: Holyfield Vs Liston

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Originally Posted by manbearpig View Post
Holyfield UD

I tried to understand the hype, but no. **** Liston.
Manbearpig - Do you not reckon WARRIOR Holyfeild might make "SPINELESS" Sonny "lummox" Liston QUIT on his QUITING-STOOL?? This really is a Giant-Killer VS Spineless-BULLY fight.

ALSO - how would Holyfield act in Retalitation when Spineless Sonny the brutish bully And notorious bastard puts illegal Solvents on his gloves to try to blind him?? Liston ALWAYS did this when he faced adversity.
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Old 03-18-2012, 03:57 PM   #26
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Default Re: Holyfield Vs Liston

This is truly a pick 'em fight. For me, at least...


It would be interesting to see how Evander copes with Liston's jab and underrated boxing overall, and I'd also like to see how Liston copes with a guy who isn't running for his life and actually brings the fight to him, putting pressure he never dealt with.

When thinking about Liston and how he deals with being smothered with big punches, I think of the Williams fights, where he's getting the shit beat out of him, and Cleveland was clobbering him with all kinds of shots, meanwhile, Liston is slipping, ducking, blocking, and waiting for his turn, totally in control of himself. He then explodes on Williams, issuing a beating resulting in the knockout.

Obviously, Holyfield is a better fighter overall, but those punches could have earned him a victory over a lot of heavies that are regarded higher than him. The thing is, I think Holyfield isn't hard to hit, so Liston would be making contact. Its a given that Holyfield would find Liston consistently.

If I had to pick, my first inclination is a Holyfield win by decision- too busy, too much pressure and volume, and I believe Holy lands more than he takes....

I could see Liston winning by later round knockout by an accumulation of heavy shots though.
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Old 03-18-2012, 04:02 PM   #27
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Default Re: Holyfield Vs Liston

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Originally Posted by DaveK View Post

I could see Liston winning by later round knockout by an accumulation of heavy shots though.
Oh do teach me about these late round knockouts Liston got in his career, in fact why don't we compare them to Holy's...
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Old 03-18-2012, 04:13 PM   #28
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Default Re: Holyfield Vs Liston

Holyfield, too quick, too fast a pace, too much heart
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Old 03-18-2012, 04:22 PM   #29
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Default Re: Holyfield Vs Liston

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Originally Posted by frankenfrank View Post
r/were u serious ?
No I was drunk
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Old 03-18-2012, 04:47 PM   #30
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Default Re: Holyfield Vs Liston

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Originally Posted by Kalasinn View Post
Oh do teach me about these late round knockouts Liston got in his career, in fact why don't we compare them to Holy's...

I was more thinking of Holy's later-round KO loss, mr. snippy...


And just because a guy never did it doesn't mean he couldn't. There are tons of examples of that concept.
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