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View Poll Results: Who Takes it?
Holyfield Decision 19 35.85%
Holyfield KO/TKO 13 24.53%
Liston Decision 5 9.43%
Liston KO/TKO 13 24.53%
Too Close To Call 3 5.66%
Voters: 53. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 03-18-2012, 07:34 PM   #46
BUDW
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Default Re: Holyfield Vs Liston

Liston's jab is the difference in the first quarter of the fight, then his power comes into play and he grinds Evander down late tko win by Liston
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Old 03-18-2012, 08:29 PM   #47
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Default Re: Holyfield Vs Liston

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Originally Posted by Kalasinn View Post
Well it's a pretty shitty example; Holy had Hepatitis in Bowe III. Didn't you notice something was badly wrong with his stamina? Either that, or the Hepatitis was a cover story for another heart problem with his left ventricle, for fear of having his boxing license revoked. The next time Holy gassed so seriously & suddenly exhausted at that point in a fight was in '03 against Toney, when he was shot-to-shit.

If you want to see a healthy Holy's late round fortitude, watch round 10 of Holy-Tyson I, see the tremendous nukes he absorbed as if bullet-proof, then feint with his footwork towards the end of the round, & catch Tyson with a magnificent counter. Speaking of counters, Liston is so ridiculously slow in comparison to Holy, he'd be eating clean counters all night. Also, watch the brutal shellacking of heavy artillery Holy took in the 10th of his first war with Bowe, & how he came back strong at the end of the round.

Anyway, Holy's late impressive round stoppage wins against Dokes, Steward, Tyson & Moorer suggest vastly superior ability & endurance to stop a man late in a fight, in comparison Liston's singular late cuts stoppage over unskilled defenseless punchbag Chuck Wepner.
Yes, I'm aware of his HGH/steroids-induced heart issues, and I've seen all the fights you mention... You also may not have noticed that I made no mention of his loss to Toney, as those type fights leave you little to go on when the fighter in question is that far past it.

You also may have missed that in two posts now, I've picked Holyfield, and I've explained why, and it shares your line of reasoning in part as well...

The stoppage loss to Bowe is important to mention, whether the fantasy opponent (Liston in this case) shares stylistic similarities or not, but its also worth noting that Holyfield was down on several occasions to punchers, and that does concern Liston's cause in our discussion.

I'll save you the rebuttal to that last remark by saying that yes, he did get up and kick the other guy's ass, and yes, Holyfield showed superhuman will and heart on more than one occasion....
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Old 03-18-2012, 08:50 PM   #48
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Default Re: Holyfield Vs Liston

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Originally Posted by DaveK View Post
Yes, I'm aware of his HGH/steroids-induced heart issues, and I've seen all the fights you mention... You also may not have noticed that I made no mention of his loss to Toney, as those type fights leave you little to go on when the fighter in question is that far past it.

You also may have missed that in two posts now, I've picked Holyfield, and I've explained why, and it shares your line of reasoning in part as well...
Yeah i did miss that, but i'm pretty sleep deprived.

Quote:
The stoppage loss to Bowe is important to mention, whether the fantasy opponent (Liston in this case) shares stylistic similarities or not, but its also worth noting that Holyfield was down on several occasions to punchers, and that does concern Liston's cause in our discussion.
Holy showed a vastly superior chin to Liston, would you agree that's obvious...

I'm willing to come back & argue tomorrow, if you disagree.

Quote:
I'll save you the rebuttal to that last remark by saying that yes, he did get up and kick the other guy's ass, and yes, Holyfield showed superhuman will and heart on more than one occasion....
Profoundly unlike Liston then.

Unless people are willing to forgive his double disgraceful quitjobs against Ali, for surviving the distance with terrifying 180lber Marty Marshall & his 28% KO percentage, with a broken jaw inflicted by the little man.
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Old 03-18-2012, 09:20 PM   #49
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Default Re: Holyfield Vs Liston

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Originally Posted by Kalasinn View Post
Yeah i did miss that, but i'm pretty sleep deprived.



Holy showed a vastly superior chin to Liston, would you agree that's obvious...

I'm willing to come back & argue tomorrow, if you disagree.
I disagree, but prefer not to "argue"... I would like to hear your case for your strong term "vastly superior"... I'd be interested to hear that.

I'm just saying Holyfield was down on several occasions, but he always got up. He was more durable and iron-willed than he was iron-chinned... Don't get me wrong; he could take some bombs.

On the other hand, Liston in his prime wasn't down (that I know of); he got bombed by Williams in two fights and got a broke jaw against Marshall, as you mentioned, and it doesn't matter how big the guy is you're fighting; if you have a broke jaw, it takes some balls and heart to keep going...

To compare, I'd say Holyfield has a better chance of getting dropped by a puncher than Liston does, and I'm giving the benefit of the doubt to Liston on durability, so not much to choose there probably. I'd also say that Holyfield has much more resolve and self-belief, so when it gets gritty, Holyfield excels (or at least does his best- would die trying) while Liston looks for a way out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalasinn View Post
Profoundly unlike Liston then.

Unless people are willing to forgive his double disgraceful quitjobs against Ali, for surviving the distance with terrifying 180lber Marty Marshall & his 28% KO percentage, with a broken jaw inflicted by the little man.

I completely disregard the second Ali fight. I believe it was a total fix. The first was questionable overall; what isn't questionable is Liston's lack of resolve when the going got tough. At the same time, I think Liston was further past it than he's credited with.

I'm trying to be objective about this, and it sounds like you're completely writing Liston off as a bum, so this is where we differ. Liston may be overrated, but he's no bum.
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Old 03-19-2012, 01:58 AM   #50
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Default Re: Holyfield Vs Liston

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Originally Posted by Kalasinn View Post
Well it's a pretty shitty example; Holy had Hepatitis in Bowe III. Didn't you notice something was badly wrong with his stamina? Either that, or the Hepatitis was a cover story for another heart problem with his left ventricle, for fear of having his boxing license revoked. The next time Holy gassed so seriously & suddenly exhausted at that point in a fight was in '03 against Toney, when he was shot-to-shit.


Hey Kal, what's a more justifiable excuse for a loss. Becoming a 40 year old alcoholic overnight, or having Hepatitis or left ventricle heart problems.

Man Holy gets it rough a lot. His record based on wins alone is right up there with Ali's. It's only the inconsistency and lack of domination that tends to hurt him. Holyfield is definitely vastly superior at stopping guys late in fights. Liston's stamina is better than Foreman's for sure. But Liston never winged a million punches like an idiot to ever gas himself out so badly. His work-rate is certainly something that's far too often overlooked when it comes to H2H matchups IMO.
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Old 03-19-2012, 02:04 AM   #51
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Default Re: Holyfield Vs Liston

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Originally Posted by lufcrazy View Post
No I was drunk
when u replied 2 me or when u made that/those bet/s ?
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Old 03-19-2012, 02:05 AM   #52
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Default Re: Holyfield Vs Liston

holyfield wins/ he wouldnt be intimidated/ his 20 inch neck would take listons shots/ and holy would win 12 rd dec...NO PROB
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Old 03-19-2012, 03:56 AM   #53
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Default Re: Holyfield Vs Liston

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Originally Posted by frankenfrank View Post
when u replied 2 me or when u made that/those bet/s ?
When I made the bets.
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Old 03-19-2012, 03:58 AM   #54
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Default Re: Holyfield Vs Liston

The question will be are both of them on the juice or Holyfield only ?

Anyway , I take Holyfield, far more proven against modern B-I-G skilled Hwt champs not beansticks......Liston actually fought ONE talented new generation Hwt...........and quit twice.
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Old 03-19-2012, 06:26 AM   #55
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Default Re: Holyfield Vs Liston

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Originally Posted by lufcrazy View Post
When I made the bets.
sure , so u would have been a vMillionaire if u could just stay away from d internet while drunk . how cum u didn't (at least) increase your 75 then ? and how often do u post while "drunk" ?
i take your word 4 it like i do with your predictions

Last edited by frankenfrank; 03-19-2012 at 06:37 AM.
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Old 03-19-2012, 06:32 AM   #56
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Default Re: Holyfield Vs Liston

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Originally Posted by sauhund II View Post
The question will be are both of them on the juice or Holyfield only ?

Anyway , I take Holyfield, far more proven against modern B-I-G skilled Hwt champs not beansticks......Liston actually fought ONE talented new generation Hwt...........and quit twice.
ROIDS have been around since teh late 1950s, But i think Spineless Sonny preffered the Brown.
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Old 03-19-2012, 06:59 AM   #57
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Default Re: Holyfield Vs Liston

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ROIDS have been around since teh late 1950s, But i think Spineless Sonny preffered the Brown.
Yeahhhhhhhhhhh buddy!
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Old 03-19-2012, 10:00 AM   #58
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Default Re: Holyfield Vs Liston

If Liston boxes, he wins.

If he brawls, he loses.
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Old 03-19-2012, 11:47 AM   #59
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Default Re: Holyfield Vs Liston

Holyfield for me. While Liston's jab had more power and authority, Holyfield had a quicker jab and it was more of a boxer's jab. It was better point scorer. I think Holyfield's jab is underrated. He doubled and tripled it up very well.....And while moving laterally too. I think that Holyfield would get the better of things on the outside. However, once they opened up and things got hot, he'd be troubled. Liston would probably hurt Holyfield like Bowe did in the 10th round of their first fight. He's got more than enough power to have Evander's alarm bells ringing. One thing Holyfield has in return....Tremendous recovery powers while under pressure. I think he would weather the storm. Holyfield on points.
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Old 03-19-2012, 01:39 PM   #60
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Default Re: Holyfield Vs Liston

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Originally Posted by frankenfrank View Post
sure , so u would have been a vMillionaire if u could just stay away from d internet while drunk . how cum u didn't (at least) increase your 75 then ? and how often do u post while "drunk" ?
i take your word 4 it like i do with your predictions
No but i'd have about 1,500.

Too impatient to bet smart with it. Keep taking the best paying option.

Well weekend's I drink quite a lot. Probably easy to spot because I swear more often. Due to lack of inhibitions.

No point taking any word for a prediction because liston v holy will never happen.
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