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Old 03-18-2012, 08:27 PM   #16
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Default Re: Joe Louis on Joe Walcott's Power ...

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What? The two never fought.
Lamar hurt George with punches he landed on other guys I guess.
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Old 03-19-2012, 01:17 PM   #17
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Default Re: Joe Louis on Joe Walcott's Power ...

If a guy puts you down 3 times in 2 fights.. wins the first fight according to most observers while making you look foolish... wins the vast majority of the second fight making you look even worse.... Doesn't matter what comes from the horses mouth we all saw what took place...
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Old 03-19-2012, 01:31 PM   #18
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Default Re: Joe Louis on Joe Walcott's Power ...

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Originally Posted by janitor View Post
Some verry interesting insights there.


He [Louis] names Delaney (a no name fighter) as the hardest puncher he ever faced. For comparison, George Chuvalo named Lamar Clark as the hardest puncher he faced. This tends to confirm my view that the George Foremans and Max Baers of the world do not necesarily hit an order of magnitude harder than the hardest punching ham n eggers.
Yeah, I think it tells us that -- even for a M. Baer or a Foreman -- there's a lot, lot, lot more to being a succesful heavyweight and rising to the championship than just sheer punching power. Heck, there's a lot more even to being just a great hitter than sheer punching power alone.

Dave Kingman and Greg Luzinski may have been able to hit baseball's a bit further than Joe DiMaggio or Stan Musial; but would anyone in their right minds call them, for that reason, greater hitters? or even greater sluggers?
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Old 03-19-2012, 01:57 PM   #19
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Default Re: Joe Louis on Joe Walcott's Power ...

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For the record, Louis hated Godoy, and seems to have at least respected Walcott.

Godoy probably embarased him at least as much as Walcott.

If Louis says that Godoy was cute, then it is probably worth listening to.
I'm not doubting he thought Godoy was cute, just think it's pretty clear that Walcott - who reportedly got sacked as a sparring partner for Louis for making him look bad - doesn't get his full due from Louis.

Didn't Louis also excuse his showing in the first Conn fight with cutting lots of weight in order not to look too big beside Conn? He sounds as bad as most boxers in this regard.
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Old 03-20-2012, 06:05 AM   #20
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Default Re: Joe Louis on Joe Walcott's Power ...

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Originally Posted by janitor View Post
He names Delaney (a no name fighter) as the hardest puncher he ever faced. For comparison, George Chuvalo named Lamar Clark as the hardest puncher he faced. This tends to confirm my view that the George Foremans and Max Baers of the world do not necesarily hit an order of magnitude harder than the hardest punching ham n eggers.
No doubt. I suppose we focus on the big names because they're easy reference material.
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Old 03-20-2012, 07:51 AM   #21
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Default Re: Joe Louis on Joe Walcott's Power ...

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Originally Posted by Bokaj View Post
I'm not doubting he thought Godoy was cute, just think it's pretty clear that Walcott - who reportedly got sacked as a sparring partner for Louis for making him look bad - doesn't get his full due from Louis.

Didn't Louis also excuse his showing in the first Conn fight with cutting lots of weight in order not to look too big beside Conn? He sounds as bad as most boxers in this regard.
I think that people are somtimes a bit too quick to atribute to fighters, the habbit evaluating their opponents to agrandise themselves, whenever they express a surprizing oppinion.

Often the statment that surprizes people, wouldn't actualy present them in a more favourable light than the orthodoxy.
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Old 03-20-2012, 07:53 AM   #22
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Default Re: Joe Louis on Joe Walcott's Power ...

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Originally Posted by Bokaj View Post
I'm not doubting he thought Godoy was cute, just think it's pretty clear that Walcott - who reportedly got sacked as a sparring partner for Louis for making him look bad - doesn't get his full due from Louis.

Didn't Louis also excuse his showing in the first Conn fight with cutting lots of weight in order not to look too big beside Conn? He sounds as bad as most boxers in this regard.
There is also the chance he is simply telling the truth ..
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Old 03-20-2012, 08:03 AM   #23
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Default Re: Joe Louis on Joe Walcott's Power ...

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Originally Posted by janitor View Post
Some verry interesting insights there.

Joe names the first Abe Simon fight as one of his toughest. A fight which most boxing fans would have thought to be comparativley easy, despite going for 13 rounds. It just goes to show that you never realy know what its like for the man in the ring.

He names Delaney (a no name fighter) as the hardest puncher he ever faced. For comparison, George Chuvalo named Lamar Clark as the hardest puncher he faced. This tends to confirm my view that the George Foremans and Max Baers of the world do not necesarily hit an order of magnitude harder than the hardest punching ham n eggers.

He says that he was gun shy after his loss to Max Schmeling, and that this contributed to his laclustre performence against Tommy Farr, as I had suspected.

He further brings up a relevant point that his title challengers had an advanage over him, in that they had more film footage to work with.
It depends on WHO they fight and also if they're willing to give them credit alot of boxers like to say somebody they defeated hit harder than the person who knocked them out cold. Maybe they're being honest but really who knows, Walcott managed to deck Louis 3 times in bouts and also another time in sparring (got fired for his troubles).
Also your point about Chuvalo he constantly says the TWO hardest punchers as Mike Dejohn and Foreman i've never heard him single out Dejohn without mentioning Foreman.
Tony Galento who sparred with Dempsey had a good amatuer degree fought over 100 pro bouts including punchers like Lorenzo Pack, Lou Nova, Buddy and Max Baer and Joe Louis said Max hit him the hardest, also Farr said Max hit the hardest. Baer said one shot from Schmeling hurt him more than all the punches Louis managed to land in their 4 round fight.
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Old 03-20-2012, 08:22 AM   #24
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Default Re: Joe Louis on Joe Walcott's Power ...

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Originally Posted by MadcapMaxie View Post
It depends on WHO they fight and also if they're willing to give them credit alot of boxers like to say somebody they defeated hit harder than the person who knocked them out cold. Maybe they're being honest but really who knows, Walcott managed to deck Louis 3 times in bouts and also another time in sparring (got fired for his troubles).
Also your point about Chuvalo he constantly says the TWO hardest punchers as Mike Dejohn and Foreman i've never heard him single out Dejohn without mentioning Foreman.
Tony Galento who sparred with Dempsey had a good amatuer degree fought over 100 pro bouts including punchers like Lorenzo Pack, Lou Nova, Buddy and Max Baer and Joe Louis said Max hit him the hardest, also Farr said Max hit the hardest. Baer said one shot from Schmeling hurt him more than all the punches Louis managed to land in their 4 round fight.
I can see absolutely no advantage to Louis in naming a non elite fighter as the hardest puncher he ever faced.

If he were concerned with his image, then the obvious tack would be to suport the orthodoxy that Max Baer who he dominated, was the hardest puncher of the era.

Again from a purely cynical point of view, wouldn't it be in his interests to big up Walcott, who he did defeat twice?

If you think that a fighter has an agenda, then start by asking "what would be a smart play in terms of advancing that agenda?"
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Old 03-20-2012, 08:29 AM   #25
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Default Re: Joe Louis on Joe Walcott's Power ...

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Originally Posted by janitor View Post
I can see absolutely no advantage to Louis in naming a non elite fighter as the hardest puncher he ever faced.

If he were concerned with his image, then the obvious tack would be to suport the orthodoxy that Max Baer who he dominated, was the hardest puncher of the era.

Again from a purely cynical point of view, wouldn't it be in his interests to big up Walcott, who he did defeat twice?

If you think that a fighter has an agenda, then start by asking "what would be a smart play in terms of advancing that agenda?"
I was just saying in general you can't ever be too sure, Louis is def a straight shooter who seems to say what he feels. I watched the program that looked back on Walcott-Louis I and Louis said he thought he'd won the fight despite being decked twice so I trust him in what he says.
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Old 03-20-2012, 09:09 AM   #26
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Default Re: Joe Louis on Joe Walcott's Power ...

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Originally Posted by Bokaj View Post
I'm not doubting he thought Godoy was cute, just think it's pretty clear that Walcott - who reportedly got sacked as a sparring partner for Louis for making him look bad - doesn't get his full due from Louis.

Didn't Louis also excuse his showing in the first Conn fight with cutting lots of weight in order not to look too big beside Conn? He sounds as bad as most boxers in this regard.
Regarding the 1st Conn fight, according to Louis in his autobiography, he didn't drop the weight because he didn't want to look too big next to Conn, but wanted to drop the weight in order to come in under 200 so the MC didn't say "Conn 172 (or whatever)...Louis 202" Louis wanted the first digit to be 1 not 2, so it sounded like a fairer fight weight-wise.

Louis' aoutobio came out not more than 18 months/2 years before he died...I really don't think he was bullsh*tting...some of the book sounded more like a confessional...
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Old 03-20-2012, 12:29 PM   #27
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Default Re: Joe Louis on Joe Walcott's Power ...

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Originally Posted by FastHands(beeb) View Post
Regarding the 1st Conn fight, according to Louis in his autobiography, he didn't drop the weight because he didn't want to look too big next to Conn, but wanted to drop the weight in order to come in under 200 so the MC didn't say "Conn 172 (or whatever)...Louis 202" Louis wanted the first digit to be 1 not 2, so it sounded like a fairer fight weight-wise.

Louis' aoutobio came out not more than 18 months/2 years before he died...I really don't think he was bullsh*tting...some of the book sounded more like a confessional...
Of course by then, his memory of the events might have been clouded.
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Old 03-20-2012, 01:53 PM   #28
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Default Re: Joe Louis on Joe Walcott's Power ...

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Of course by then, his memory of the events might have been clouded.
This is quite possibly true, however, I believe that Louis would have been as honest as his memory would have allowed him.

The book is a great read...alas, I no longer have it, as is often the case, I lent it to a friend & didn't get it back...
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Old 03-20-2012, 07:20 PM   #29
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Default Re: Joe Louis on Joe Walcott's Power ...

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...some of the book sounded more like a confessional...
It certainly did. Joe has always been one of my all-time favorites, and while the book was quite interesting, parts of it made for a hard read and portrayed him in a not-so-favorable light. I, too, no longer have my copy.

Regarding his assessment of Walcott, I recall him saying after having watched the FOTC that he believed Jersey Joe Walcott would have beaten both Frazier and Ali. In his autobiography he reiterates his placement of Walcott over Ali.
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