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Old 03-20-2012, 10:23 AM   #31
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Default Re: Educate me on Ray Robinson

Robinson proposed a match with Moore, but Moore walked out when Robinson only offered him 30% of the pot

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It's not like the heat came on instantaneously. Maxim had the heat problem as well.

Any fighter can go balls to the wall for a handful of rounds and gas late on after being up on points.

The bottom line is that his gameplan wasn't feasible for a victory.
What people who haven't boxed don't get is, the bigger man being stronger needs to do less and hence tires less quickly. Obviously the heat affects the smaller man more, it's obvious. And his gameplan was probably very feasible for victory in other conditions
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Old 03-20-2012, 11:06 AM   #32
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Default Re: Educate me on Ray Robinson

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Robinson proposed a match with Moore, but Moore walked out when Robinson only offered him 30% of the pot



What people who haven't boxed don't get is, the bigger man being stronger needs to do less and hence tires less quickly. Obviously the heat affects the smaller man more, it's obvious. And his gameplan was probably very feasible for victory in other conditions
But they weren't fighting in other conditions. Therefore robinson couldn't afford to move as much or be as busy as he was.

In other conditions maxim might well have done more himself rather than sit back and robinson expend energy he really couldn't afford to.
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Old 03-20-2012, 11:07 AM   #33
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Default Re: Educate me on Ray Robinson

It was Robinson`s combination of blazing hand and foot speed to go along with murderous power in both hands. His chin was terrific but his recovery ablity even more so. You could hurt him or even drop him but he always found a way to get through it. He got up off the canvas to KO fighters sometimes giving away significant weight.

The Levine fight comes to mind.
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Old 03-20-2012, 11:56 AM   #34
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Default Re: Educate me on Ray Robinson

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It certainly explains the simple-minded nature of his posts, I'll say that much. It's not Forrest Gump level or anything, but it's well below average. Scientifically speaking, he's dumb.
the plot thickens
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Old 03-20-2012, 02:04 PM   #35
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Default Re: Educate me on Ray Robinson

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Show me one quote when I said he was a bum.
You certainly along with the rest of you "experts" have indacated that from 1950 he was.
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Old 03-20-2012, 02:14 PM   #36
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Default Re: Educate me on Ray Robinson

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You certainly along with the rest of you "experts" have indacated that from 1950 he was.
Show me a quote where I ever indicated if was a bum from 1950.
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Old 03-20-2012, 08:12 PM   #37
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Default Re: Educate me on Ray Robinson

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Show me a quote where I ever indicated if was a bum from 1950.
Lets be clear this is not an apology
I never said that you used those words.
I have said that posters such as but not limmited to yourself make every excuse for his losses in a point of his career that he should not have had any.
Almost every bit of footage we have of Robinson is post 1950. It is clear we are looking at an extreemly talented boxer. A guy who is clearly the best middle weight of his time and a top 10 maybe top 5 all time head to head guy. Yet he has losses to guys who he's clearly better than.
I'm willing to concede that my orangal statment that he should be judged through 1960 is too harsh, but 1959 is reasonable. Up to than he has 6 losses on his record. You can argue that LaMotta (pre 1950) cought him on the way up and 175 (Maxim) was a bridge to far for Robinson. However Turpin wasn't better than Robinson in 1951. Neather were Fulmer and Basilio in 1957.
Like I said I never said you used those words. However you along with other posters have made every excuse for him, and reading your responses to my questioning ranking Robinson as the #1 ATG. (I have him at #4) You'd get the impression that he was a bum post 1950.
If your bothered by this there is nothing I can or care to do about it.
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Old 03-20-2012, 08:17 PM   #38
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Default Re: Educate me on Ray Robinson

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But they weren't fighting in other conditions. Therefore robinson couldn't afford to move as much or be as busy as he was.

In other conditions maxim might well have done more himself rather than sit back and robinson expend energy he really couldn't afford to.

Robinson probably didn't think he would hit the wall like that.could be that on most nights he wouldn't, other fighters have done fifteen at a good pace in similar heat.Not that it matters now...he gassed and lost legit.
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Old 03-20-2012, 08:30 PM   #39
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Default Re: Educate me on Ray Robinson

Robinson had so many fights through his career that by the time he was 34-35 he had so many miles on his odometer. Being past your prime doesnt mean that a fighter cant perform but they cant call upon it at will.

He became inconsistant after his intial retirement layoff. Still capable of brilliance but beatable no different than Ali in his 30s. Before that he was about as consistant at an athlete can be. In about 135 fights he lost 3. One caused by a heat stroke on one of the hottest days in New York City history. It that sounds like an excuse then I find it odd that the referee collapsed a few rounds before.

Im pretty sure he was the Greatest Welterweight of AllTime. One of the Greatest Middleweights...P4P I only have Ezzard Charles in sniffing distance of him.
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Old 03-20-2012, 09:52 PM   #40
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Default Re: Educate me on Ray Robinson

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Robinson had so many fights through his career that by the time he was 34-35 he had so many miles on his odometer. Being past your prime doesnt mean that a fighter cant perform but they cant call upon it at will.

He became inconsistant after his intial retirement layoff. Still capable of brilliance but beatable no different than Ali in his 30s. Before that he was about as consistant at an athlete can be. In about 135 fights he lost 3. One caused by a heat stroke on one of the hottest days in New York City history. It that sounds like an excuse then I find it odd that the referee collapsed a few rounds before.

Im pretty sure he was the Greatest Welterweight of AllTime. One of the Greatest Middleweights...P4P I only have Ezzard Charles in sniffing distance of him.
Ya may be a newbie, ETM, but ya go the smarts of a veteran.
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Old 03-20-2012, 10:14 PM   #41
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Default Re: Educate me on Ray Robinson

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Ya may be a newbie, ETM, but ya go the smarts of a veteran.
Thanks.
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Old 03-20-2012, 10:48 PM   #42
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Default Re: Educate me on Ray Robinson

Lookiing at Robinson`s early record the fights that are really impressive are the Zivic fights. SRR was very young maybe 20 years old. Zivic was a recently detroned Welterweight Champion.Back when being a Champion really meant something. About a year into his pro career he takes on Zivic and beats him not once but twice including a knockout in the second bout.

Hard to think of a reasonable comparision. Maybe Ray Leonard taking on Carlos Palomino about 1977? Knocking him out. Ali taking on Patterson in 1961. He might have done it but he may not have been ready at that point.
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Old 03-20-2012, 11:43 PM   #43
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Default Re: Educate me on Ray Robinson

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Lookiing at Robinson`s early record the fights that are really impressive are the Zivic fights. SRR was very young maybe 20 years old. Zivic was a recently detroned Welterweight Champion.Back when being a Champion really meant something. About a year into his pro career he takes on Zivic and beats him not once but twice including a knockout in the second bout.

Hard to think of a reasonable comparision. Maybe Ray Leonard taking on Carlos Palomino about 1977? Knocking him out. Ali taking on Patterson in 1961. He might have done it but he may not have been ready at that point.
I look forward to some threads you may start, ETM. Welcome aboard.
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Old 03-21-2012, 03:45 AM   #44
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Default Re: Educate me on Ray Robinson

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Lets be clear this is not an apology
I never said that you used those words.
I have said that posters such as but not limmited to yourself make every excuse for his losses in a point of his career that he should not have had any.
Almost every bit of footage we have of Robinson is post 1950. It is clear we are looking at an extreemly talented boxer. A guy who is clearly the best middle weight of his time and a top 10 maybe top 5 all time head to head guy. Yet he has losses to guys who he's clearly better than.
I'm willing to concede that my orangal statment that he should be judged through 1960 is too harsh, but 1959 is reasonable. Up to than he has 6 losses on his record. You can argue that LaMotta (pre 1950) cought him on the way up and 175 (Maxim) was a bridge to far for Robinson. However Turpin wasn't better than Robinson in 1951. Neather were Fulmer and Basilio in 1957.
Like I said I never said you used those words. However you along with other posters have made every excuse for him, and reading your responses to my questioning ranking Robinson as the #1 ATG. (I have him at #4) You'd get the impression that he was a bum post 1950.
If your bothered by this there is nothing I can or care to do about it.
I accept your partial apology.

Now show me a quote where i've excused any losses of his.
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Old 03-21-2012, 06:28 PM   #45
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Default Re: Educate me on Ray Robinson

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Originally Posted by lufcrazy View Post
I accept your partial apology.

Now show me a quote where i've excused any losses of his.
[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

In this thread I ask what I fell are fair questions about Robinson's middleweight career.
Post #31 & Post #36.
By attacking my thread you are excusing his losses.
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