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Old 03-21-2012, 07:44 PM   #46
MURK20
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Default Re: Educate me on Ray Robinson

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I look forward to some threads you may start, ETM. Welcome aboard.

ETM, I do more reading than posting. These fellas are absolute boxing scholars, so their compliments are something to be proud of. Looking forward to see some of your gems displayed.
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Old 03-21-2012, 08:28 PM   #47
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Default Re: Educate me on Ray Robinson

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ETM, I do more reading than posting. These fellas are absolute boxing scholars, so their compliments are something to be proud of. Looking forward to see some of your gems displayed.
I appreciate it. This is a cool site.
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Old 03-22-2012, 02:04 AM   #48
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Default Re: Educate me on Ray Robinson

The fact that ETM even knows who Ike Williams is puts him head and shoulders above 90% of the posters on ESB

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Old 03-22-2012, 02:52 AM   #49
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Default Re: Educate me on Ray Robinson

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Lookiing at Robinson`s early record the fights that are really impressive are the Zivic fights. SRR was very young maybe 20 years old. Zivic was a recently detroned Welterweight Champion.Back when being a Champion really meant something. About a year into his pro career he takes on Zivic and beats him not once but twice including a knockout in the second bout.

Hard to think of a reasonable comparision. Maybe Ray Leonard taking on Carlos Palomino about 1977? Knocking him out. Ali taking on Patterson in 1961. He might have done it but he may not have been ready at that point.
I think it's especially notable when you think of all the cases where a talented young fighter with not enough experience has been thrust in there with a veteran, (especially one who fights as dirty as Zivic) and it has turned into a complete ****ing disaster for the younger fighter. (Think Duran vs Davey Moore.)

When Ray Robinson does it, not only did he kick ass, but it's one of his less talked about accomplishments.
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Old 03-22-2012, 02:55 AM   #50
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Default Re: Educate me on Ray Robinson

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I think it's especially notable when you think of all the cases where a talented young fighter with not enough experience has been thrust in there with a veteran, (especially one who fights as dirty as Zivic) and it has turned into a complete ****ing disaster for the younger fighter. (Think Duran vs Davey Moore.)

When Ray Robinson does it, not only did he kick ass, but it's one of his less talked about accomplishments.
Think Duran-Moore AND
Campos-Marquez
Hamsho-Czyz
Czyz-Maynard
Rubio-Lemieux
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Old 03-22-2012, 04:17 AM   #51
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Default Re: Educate me on Ray Robinson

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[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

In this thread I ask what I fell are fair questions about Robinson's middleweight career.
Post #31 & Post #36.
By attacking my thread you are excusing his losses.
Huge difference between making excuses for a fighter's losses and thinking your thread was utter ****e.
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Old 03-22-2012, 04:01 PM   #52
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Default Re: Educate me on Ray Robinson

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I think it's especially notable when you think of all the cases where a talented young fighter with not enough experience has been thrust in there with a veteran, (especially one who fights as dirty as Zivic) and it has turned into a complete ****ing disaster for the younger fighter. (Think Duran vs Davey Moore.)

When Ray Robinson does it, not only did he kick ass, but it's one of his less talked about accomplishments.
Zivic times 2 as a one year pro is a very-very mind boggling indication of this stellar fighters abilities.

Zivics comments in re Charlie Burley chanses vs Robinson....zilch!!...is yet another.
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Old 03-22-2012, 04:10 PM   #53
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Default Re: Educate me on Ray Robinson

Robinson, Conn and Burley all talked about Zivic as the learning opponent of their careers.
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Old 03-22-2012, 04:14 PM   #54
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Default Re: Educate me on Ray Robinson

And much bigger Jake LaMotta talked about getting very fuked up by him.
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Old 03-23-2012, 12:52 AM   #55
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Default Re: Educate me on Ray Robinson

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I apologize if this thread was made before but i could not find it.
I am new to boxing and i don't know much about him. I did some work with boxrec but thats just "on paper material".
What made him so great ? (please don't talk abut athleticism).
What were those great wins that put him down in history as the greatest ?
Bad, I am one of the few still kicking to have seen the greatest all around fighter EVER in his prime...Saw him several times at his best . He had to be seen to be truly appreciated...To give a small example of Ray Robinson's prowess, In Ray's first year he defeated ,the great rough and wily veteran Fritzie Zivic twice...In his first year...Amazing feat.
I once saw Fritzie Zivic a few years after when he was 32 years old,facing a young dynamic Knockout artist from Philly called Billy Arnold...Billy Arnold had about 43kos in 45 bouts if I can recollect, and was called the "New Joe Louis". We at MSG in 1945, felt sorry for the old veteran Zivic, who upset the applecart and gave Billy Arnold a boxing lesson... To think that Ray Robinson 3 years earlier stopped Fritzie Zivic, when Robby was fighting
pro for but one year, is an indication of the greatness of the best fighter I ever saw...Hands down...
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Old 03-23-2012, 01:05 AM   #56
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Default Re: Educate me on Ray Robinson

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Originally Posted by burt bienstock View Post
To give a small example of Ray Robinson's prowess, In Ray's first year he defeated ,the great rough and wily veteran Fritzie Zivic twice...In his first year...Amazing feat.
This is definitely impressive.....
Some young fans look at Zivicīs numbers with 65 losses and donīt understand how good he was at that time, a rough and tough era.....and how hard was fight against him....because Zivic knew every trick of the game, his effectiveness was based on his tricks, it was all about his experience and smartness...and even so a green SRR beat Zivic, thatīs certainly special.....and speaks volumes about Rayīs own smartness....
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Old 03-23-2012, 01:57 AM   #57
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Default Re: Educate me on Ray Robinson

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I think it's especially notable when you think of all the cases where a talented young fighter with not enough experience has been thrust in there with a veteran, (especially one who fights as dirty as Zivic).
Thats true. Well put.

Also remember the mindset was different in those days. A loss wasnt looked at as the end of the world. A fighter could take a chance and if he lost it was viewed as a learning experiance. Billy Conn once said that if a fighter didnt have at least one loss going into a title shot he wasnt ready.

Today fighters protect that 0 even if it means not learning their trade completley.

Robinson`s consistancy at Welterweight is one of the most amazing achievements in the history of sports.
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Old 03-23-2012, 02:59 PM   #58
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Default Re: Educate me on Ray Robinson

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Originally Posted by Vic-JofreBRASIL View Post
This is definitely impressive.....
Some young fans look at Zivicīs numbers with 65 losses and donīt understand how good he was at that time, a rough and tough era.....and how hard was fight against him....because Zivic knew every trick of the game, his effectiveness was based on his tricks, it was all about his experience and smartness...and even so a green SRR beat Zivic, thatīs certainly special.....and speaks volumes about Rayīs own smartness....
Yes,Fritzie had a bag of rough tricks. He could make his opponent damage HIMSELF. When an opponent covered his jaw and face, Zivic would shoot a barrage of uppercuts to his opponents elbows,which would result in his foe's gloves walloping his own protected jaw...CLEVER !!!
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Old 03-23-2012, 03:41 PM   #59
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Default Re: Educate me on Ray Robinson

Holly mims would smooth box bassillio or graziano outta dare!!
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Old 04-03-2012, 03:24 PM   #60
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Default Re: Educate me on Ray Robinson

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Originally Posted by burt bienstock View Post
Bad, I am one of the few still kicking to have seen the greatest all around fighter EVER in his prime...Saw him several times at his best . He had to be seen to be truly appreciated...To give a small example of Ray Robinson's prowess, In Ray's first year he defeated ,the great rough and wily veteran Fritzie Zivic twice...In his first year...Amazing feat.
I once saw Fritzie Zivic a few years after when he was 32 years old,facing a young dynamic Knockout artist from Philly called Billy Arnold...Billy Arnold had about 43kos in 45 bouts if I can recollect, and was called the "New Joe Louis". We at MSG in 1945, felt sorry for the old veteran Zivic, who upset the applecart and gave Billy Arnold a boxing lesson... To think that Ray Robinson 3 years earlier stopped Fritzie Zivic, when Robby was fighting
pro for but one year, is an indication of the greatness of the best fighter I ever saw...Hands down...
He was more amazing then i imagined.
Thanks guys
Just started looking at tapes of him.
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