Can Wlad Break Joe Louis’s Record Of 25 Title Defences? Manny Steward says he can!!

[Duodenum]

Beyond what Stoney and McGrain have already said about it, we don't know how many more title defenses Louis would have racked up without his extended WW II hiatus, or how many Ali would have generated without the three and a half exile imposed upon him in 1967, but both could well have reached 30 defenses of the undisputed championship, or even more. (Holmes winning 20 consecutive title bouts as an undefeated boxer over eight consecutive calendar years is also stunning.)

Since Wlad's here now, the desire that he be ranked alongside past ATG's is immediate, but history has a way of diluting stature once a competitor has departed the ring, and Steward can be full of it sometimes. (Did even Manny believe it when he claimed Lennox was the greatest heavyweight champion since Ali?) Three bad stoppage losses (especially to the vastly inferior 24-13-1 Puritty) doesn't help his all time case.

[kenmore]

Originally Posted by Duodenum

Three bad stoppage losses (especially to the vastly inferior 24-13-1 Puritty) doesn't help his all time case.

ATG stature is based on a champ's prime performances, and not on his mishaps before or after his prime.

[bigjake]

Originally Posted by lufcrazy

Yes.

With Vitali's admission that he's accepting second place, Wlad is generally regarded in the public eye as the champion.

In my mind it's quite clear that he's the best hw in the world and has ben for 6 years now so that's what I consider when making my own mind up.

i've never gotten use to the bros,watching them is like watching paint dry its work.

[Foreman Hook]

Originally Posted by kenmore

By late 1980, Holmes had done more than enough to show that he was better than everyone else.

But why did Larry "Habitual Ducker" Holmes never fight Greggy Page, Tony Tubbs, Tony Tucker or Pinky Thomas.

THOSE 4 boxers, regardless of how we rate them, were v.clearly BETTER then 90% of Holmes title challengers.

Pink especially was in some media regarded as the BEST boxer in teh world back in 1984.

ALSO i And many others scored Mr.Holmes as the LOSER VS Timmy Spoon And Carlos Williams - why did they never get rematches for them v.disputed dodgy decisions they "lost" to Larry?? *cough* Don King *cough*


Foreman Hooooooooooooooooooooooooooook!

[Foreman Hook]

Originally Posted by Jack

Do you think he'll fight a great opponent in those 14 fights? If so, who? Because they should already be active and yet I don't see anything like potential greatness out there.

If not, how can anyone justify a top 3 position when the fighter in question hasn't ever beaten a great opponent?

"Super" Seth "Mighty Mike" Mitchell is IMPROVING every fight he has.

Super Seth is a v.powerful short-slugger And a fast-starter, who sets-up pulversingly-powerful right-hands with his hard shotgun-jab, And that dude is a canny fearsome-finisher.

By Late 2013, Mayhem Mitchell MIGHT be ready to cause some serious MAYHEM!!










Foreman Hoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooook!

[lufcrazy]

Originally Posted by bigjake

i've never gotten use to the bros,watching them is like watching paint dry its work.

Yeah neither are very exciting.

I do appreciate Wlad's skillset though.

[janitor]

I tend to think that Wlad will not put up another ten title defences.

He might simply decide to get out of the game first.

If not, then he likley looses his title the way that most dominant champions loose it. That is to say unexpectedly.

One day he will meet a challenger, you likley decide not to stump up the pay per view, and you will wake up to the news that Wlad is no longer champion!

[kenmore]

Originally Posted by Foreman Hook

"Super" Seth "Mighty Mike" Mitchell is IMPROVING every fight he has.

Super Seth is a v.powerful short-slugger And a fast-starter, who sets-up pulversingly-powerful right-hands with his hard shotgun-jab, And that dude is a canny fearsome-finisher.

By Late 2013, Mayhem Mitchell MIGHT be ready to cause some serious MAYHEM!!

How many rights did Ibragimov land on Mitchell in just 2 rounds? I counted 4, two of which snapped Mitchell's head back. If that had been Vlad landing those rights, what do you think Mitchell's reaction would be?

Mitchell is going to fall hard...trust me...

[Stonehands89]

Originally Posted by McGrain

I mostly agree with you Stonehands. I can see crowning a champ on a #1 versus #3 basis if there was some really weird shit going on and I can see why Ring has that caveat - but I say maybe, maybe two brothers being #1 and #2 is reason enough.

However, the distance in quality between a near-washed-up Chagaev and the #2 makes me uncomfortable with that.

I stand pretty firmly on the position that The Ring was wrong to make this allowance. Fans deserve the two best duking it out -not the best vs. the third best because there would always be a question about the second best and allowing that may put the wrong guy on the throne.

But, I'm open to what circumstances would allow it. Brothers behaving unnaturally doesn't cut it for me.

[lufcrazy]

Vitali is on record saying he doesn't challenge wlad's position.

It really can't get clearer than that.

Plenty of champions throughout history filled a vacant throne without having a consensus 1 v 2 showdown.

Wlad beat the number 1 ranked hw in byrd anyways.

[Stonehands89]

Originally Posted by lufcrazy

When Vitali is on record as saying "I don't want to fight Wlad" and saying shit like "I don't dispute his championship claim" Then you either have to accpet that Wlad is doing all he can by repeatedly fighting the number 3 guy (iggy, chagaev, haye) or you relegate Vitali in the rankings.

Either way it's semantics.

Even if it wasn't, what does it matter? Wlad has been number one sicne 06. In that period he's made 11 defences. He's still 14 away from Louis, if he breaks it, then brilliant, we are witnessing a great fighter dominate a division.

(Luf is cool. He's going to let me raise a ruckus now.)

He's DOMINATING? WHAT? --A weak field of my fellow Americans who train at McDonald's. He hasn't fought the one guy who could beat him!

He's made 11 defenses? Of what?!? These idiotic organizations are run by imbeciles who live in a make-pretend world and still they've managed to dupe the whole boxing world.

And Vitali's being a dutiful son and making mommy happy by conceding the throne doesn't-mean- DINK! I wish those two could be more like any number of siblings in 10th century Byzantium or any urban neighborhood!

If Wlad fought Vitali and Vitali defeated him, then it's Vitali that would deserve all the accolades, yes? Do you know that Wlad would beat Vitali? Nope. Neither do I.

And that's the problem here.

[kenmore]

Originally Posted by lufcrazy

Vitali is on record saying he doesn't challenge wlad's position.

It really can't get clearer than that.

Plenty of champions throughout history filled a vacant throne without having a consensus 1 v 2 showdown.

Wlad beat the number 1 ranked hw in byrd anyways.

I agree with you. The Ring belt had to go to one of the brothers, and Vlad's accomplishments give him a slight edge on Vitali (discounting their respective performances against Sanders).

It's not realistic to expect that the brothers fight each other, or to keep The Ring belt vacant on the grounds that in this era, #1 and #2 can't fight each other.

[Stonehands89]

Originally Posted by kenmore

As for competition, there is nobody on the horizon who can even remotely threaten Vlad. Absolutely nobody.

Oh yes there is.

[janitor]

Originally Posted by Stonehands89

Oh yes there is.

Pray tell.

[kenmore]

Originally Posted by Stonehands89

Oh yes there is.

Oh? Tell me who...