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Old 03-19-2012, 07:59 PM   #16
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Default Re: Who was the #1 contender when Rocky Marciano fought Ezzard Charles?

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Originally Posted by edward morbius View Post
"The IBC was hoping that Ezzard Charles would get picked off."

What is the proof of this? If this is true, why did they match Charles with Marciano?

It seems to me that Charles was much easier to sell at the box office than Valdes, which would matter to a promotion group.
Ezzard was a much bigger name, but he was also viewed as being dull to watch, so it evens out a bit.

Luckily, "dull" was one thing neither man was in the Marciano/Charles fights, IMO.
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Old 03-19-2012, 08:45 PM   #17
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Default Re: Who was the #1 contender when Rocky Marciano fought Ezzard Charles?

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Originally Posted by Zero90 View Post
Ezzard was a much bigger name, but he was also viewed as being dull to watch, so it evens out a bit.

Luckily, "dull" was one thing neither man was in the Marciano/Charles fights, IMO.
"viewed as being dull to watch"

How many of Valdes' filmed fights have you viewed? The Baker-Valdes fight in 1955 was considered a very dull fight.

On the original question, over at Boxrec they have an article from the Milwaukee Sentinal on October 7, 1954, that the NBA had named Valdes as the logical contender for Marciano's title. Apparently the NBA named a "logical" contender as well as outstanding fighters. Valdes was named the logical contender in October, 1954, with Charles, ****ell, and Slade named as outstanding boxers.

This article also contained this line

"Former Champion Ezzard Charles, now named at the top of the outstanding heavyweights, was designated the only contender before his first bout with Marciano last June."

**My take is Valdes should have gotten the May, 1955 shot over ****ell, but Charles and Moore were better contenders--Moore obviously so.
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Old 03-19-2012, 09:30 PM   #18
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Default Re: Who was the #1 contender when Rocky Marciano fought Ezzard Charles?

Some felt Charles beat Johnson and Valdes. Anyway, Nino wouldn't have had a chance vs. Marciano.
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Old 03-19-2012, 09:36 PM   #19
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Default Re: Who was the #1 contender when Rocky Marciano fought Ezzard Charles?

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Originally Posted by edward morbius View Post
"viewed as being dull to watch"

How many of Valdes' filmed fights have you viewed? The Baker-Valdes fight in 1955 was considered a very dull fight.

On the original question, over at Boxrec they have an article from the Milwaukee Sentinal on October 7, 1954, that the NBA had named Valdes as the logical contender for Marciano's title. Apparently the NBA named a "logical" contender as well as outstanding fighters. Valdes was named the logical contender in October, 1954, with Charles, ****ell, and Slade named as outstanding boxers.

This article also contained this line

"Former Champion Ezzard Charles, now named at the top of the outstanding heavyweights, was designated the only contender before his first bout with Marciano last June."

**My take is Valdes should have gotten the May, 1955 shot over ****ell, but Charles and Moore were better contenders--Moore obviously so.
Maybe Valdes should have gotting the shot over ****ell.
But after back to back wins over Walcott, a return with number 1 contender LaStarza, and than back to back battles with Ezzard Charles, you think the guy earn the right of a easy defense??

No one gets onto Ali or Louis for there Paychecks or Wepner type of defenses??
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Old 03-19-2012, 09:46 PM   #20
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Default Re: Who was the #1 contender when Rocky Marciano fought Ezzard Charles?

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Originally Posted by lufcrazy View Post
I'm eagerly awaiting the outcome of this investigation so I know whether to increase my rating of rocky or not!

The guy's legacy is relying on this!
Wrong! His legacy is fine no matter what.

Nino is a bit overrated IMO. Take away the win over Ezzard Charles and take a look at his resume again. He was easily outboxed by Harold Johnson, Archie Moore x2, Bob Satterfield, Bob Baker, he was decisioned by a young Eddie Machen and knocked out by Machen in a rematch, he was outboxed by Zora Folley, and others. So, when was he ducked exactly? Even if he was, so what? He had no chance vs. Marciano.
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Old 03-19-2012, 10:00 PM   #21
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Default Re: Who was the #1 contender when Rocky Marciano fought Ezzard Charles?

Nino Valdes had two things,,,,,,,, a powerful left hook,,,,and a vulnerable jaw.

And his manager Bobby Gleason was excellent in promoting the Cuban Heavyweight.

Quick-hitting fighters gave him the most trouble, not big but slow plodders.

His victory over Ezzard Charles in 1953 saved his career, and Bobby Gleason
milked it as long as he could.

Though he didn't get a chance at Rocky Marciano's title, he was considered a
possible challenger for Floyd Patterson's title.
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Old 06-10-2015, 08:08 PM   #22
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Default Re: Who was the #1 contender when Rocky Marciano fought Ezzard Charles?

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Originally Posted by Asterion View Post
----

Marciano fought Charles in mid-1954 for the first time. Who was the #1 contender at that moment?

Some say that Charles was the #1 contender.

.
Here is your final answer

The Ring's heavyweight ratings for May 1954 were as follows:

(Ratings dated May 20)
Champion: Rocky Marciano

1. Ezzard Charles
2. Nino Valdes
3. Don Cokkell
4. Jimmy Slade
5. Tommy Jackson
6. Roland La Starza
7. Dan Bucceroni
8. Earl Walls
9. Heinz Neuhaus
10. Tommy Harrison
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Old 06-11-2015, 09:24 AM   #23
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Default Re: Who was the #1 contender when Rocky Marciano fought Ezzard Charles?

1953-11-15 : Nino Valdes beat Heinz Neuhaus by KO in round 4 of 10
Location: Westfalenhalle, Dortmund, Nordrhein-Westfalen, Germany

"Nino Valdes of Cuba demanded top rating among heavyweight contenders today because of his impressive victories over European champion Heinz Neuhaus, Sunday, and ex-world champion Ezzard Charles on August 11th. The kayo - at 2:10 of the 4th round - was witnessed by 19,000 fans here in the huge indoor Westfalen Halle. Most of the fans were bitterly disappointed when they saw Neuhaus suffer the first kayo in his career of 33 professional fights. They had figured him a potential world champion." -United Press

*This victory elevated Valdes to #1 contender in Ring Magazine's heavyweight ratings.

Post fight comments

"Even by virtue of this knockout of Neuhaus we still don't think he's ready to go against Rocky Marciano. A victory or two more like that and he will be placed in the 'logical contender' bracket. He will have to lick someone up a little bit higher to get in that 'logical contenders' class. Nevertheless, we'll give him credit for a good win." -Fred Saddy, chairman of the NBA ratings committee

"If Rocky Marciano no take me for challenger now, people will think it very funny." -Nino Valdes


Found this and thought it pertinent to the thread. I guess everything really depends on whose ratings your looking at. Ring Mag's #1, but apparently the NBA did not hold him in high esteem. That Fred Saddy's comments about fighting someone higher is perplexing, because who was higher? I would have loved to have seen their ratings too for a comparison. All in all, of course Nino Valdes could have and should have fought either Marciano or Patterson for the title. He certainly was an imposing figure, which could have made a few managers hesitant, but he was a bit erratic. Don't think he would have beaten Rocky or Floyd but I do think he was deserving. Of course, boxing history is littered with guys who were deserving but didn't get their break.
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Old 06-11-2015, 09:35 AM   #24
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Charles was #1 when Marciano fight was signed. This has been established in other threads where every ring mag rating for 53 and 54 was posted.

Valdes lost the top spot after a poor showing against McBride as shown above by the May listings,

Last edited by The Mongoose; 06-11-2015 at 11:37 AM.
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Old 06-11-2015, 12:26 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scartissue View Post
1953-11-15 : Nino Valdes beat Heinz Neuhaus by KO in round 4 of 10
Location: Westfalenhalle, Dortmund, Nordrhein-Westfalen, Germany

"Nino Valdes of Cuba demanded top rating among heavyweight contenders today because of his impressive victories over European champion Heinz Neuhaus, Sunday, and ex-world champion Ezzard Charles on August 11th. The kayo - at 2:10 of the 4th round - was witnessed by 19,000 fans here in the huge indoor Westfalen Halle. Most of the fans were bitterly disappointed when they saw Neuhaus suffer the first kayo in his career of 33 professional fights. They had figured him a potential world champion." -United Press

*This victory elevated Valdes to #1 contender in Ring Magazine's heavyweight ratings.

Post fight comments

"Even by virtue of this knockout of Neuhaus we still don't think he's ready to go against Rocky Marciano. A victory or two more like that and he will be placed in the 'logical contender' bracket. He will have to lick someone up a little bit higher to get in that 'logical contenders' class. Nevertheless, we'll give him credit for a good win." -Fred Saddy, chairman of the NBA ratings committee

"If Rocky Marciano no take me for challenger now, people will think it very funny." -Nino Valdes


Found this and thought it pertinent to the thread. I guess everything really depends on whose ratings your looking at. Ring Mag's #1, but apparently the NBA did not hold him in high esteem. That Fred Saddy's comments about fighting someone higher is perplexing, because who was higher? I would have loved to have seen their ratings too for a comparison. All in all, of course Nino Valdes could have and should have fought either Marciano or Patterson for the title. He certainly was an imposing figure, which could have made a few managers hesitant, but he was a bit erratic. Don't think he would have beaten Rocky or Floyd but I do think he was deserving. Of course, boxing history is littered with guys who were deserving but didn't get their break.
I already answered the question with hard concrete evidence. Charles was the number one contender when he fought Marciano. Not Valdes
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Old 06-11-2015, 12:48 PM   #26
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Default Re: Who was the #1 contender when Rocky Marciano fought Ezzard Charles?

Quote:
Originally Posted by edward morbius View Post
"viewed as being dull to watch"

How many of Valdes' filmed fights have you viewed? The Baker-Valdes fight in 1955 was considered a very dull fight.

On the original question, over at Boxrec they have an article from the Milwaukee Sentinal on October 7, 1954, that the NBA had named Valdes as the logical contender for Marciano's title. Apparently the NBA named a "logical" contender as well as outstanding fighters. Valdes was named the logical contender in October, 1954, with Charles, ****ell, and Slade named as outstanding boxers.

This article also contained this line

"Former Champion Ezzard Charles, now named at the top of the outstanding heavyweights, was designated the only contender before his first bout with Marciano last June."

**My take is Valdes should have gotten the May, 1955 shot over ****ell, but Charles and Moore were better contenders--Moore obviously so.
Charles did have that reputation in some fights.It was mentioned after he stopped Layne how uncharacteristically aggressive he was.
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Old 06-11-2015, 12:51 PM   #27
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Default Re: Who was the #1 contender when Rocky Marciano fought Ezzard Charles?

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Originally Posted by kenmore View Post
Okay...so that explains why Marciano never fought Valdes. Funny how, from time to time, people start threads to the effect of "Marciano feared Valdes and ducked him...etc., etc."
It is often said that Marciano's management feared Valdes .
I don't know if it is true.but I'm pretty positive Marciano didn't fear him ,or anyone else.
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Old 06-11-2015, 02:52 PM   #28
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Default Re: Who was the #1 contender when Rocky Marciano fought Ezzard Charles?

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I already answered the question with hard concrete evidence. Charles was the number one contender when he fought Marciano. Not Valdes
Just adding to the conversation here, dude, that's all. But realistically, a bit too much is being placed on being the number one contender or the number two contender or what have you. I don't believe LaStarza or ****ell were number one, but probably both in the top five and I'm good with that. Should Valdes have gotten a title shot? I think he was deserving but he didn't get it against Rocky or Floyd and if one takes time to read into it, one can come up with a lot of scenarios. Was Valdes too good? As I said before, I think he was imposing but erratic. I think both Rock and Floyd would beat him, but he could make it tough on them. Was Bobby Goodman an issue? As someone mentioned, he seemed to have some clout, but he also (just from what I've read) might have been a little Rock Newman/Norman Stone. By that I mean so loud and so out there that no one wanted to deal with him. I don't know, I'm ignorant on the era and the man, so I don't know what was taking place that froze Nino out.
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Old 06-11-2015, 03:17 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scartissue View Post
Just adding to the conversation here, dude, that's all. But realistically, a bit too much is being placed on being the number one contender or the number two contender or what have you. I don't believe LaStarza or ****ell were number one, but probably both in the top five and I'm good with that. Should Valdes have gotten a title shot? I think he was deserving but he didn't get it against Rocky or Floyd and if one takes time to read into it, one can come up with a lot of scenarios. Was Valdes too good? As I said before, I think he was imposing but erratic. I think both Rock and Floyd would beat him, but he could make it tough on them. Was Bobby Goodman an issue? As someone mentioned, he seemed to have some clout, but he also (just from what I've read) might have been a little Rock Newman/Norman Stone. By that I mean so loud and so out there that no one wanted to deal with him. I don't know, I'm ignorant on the era and the man, so I don't know what was taking place that froze Nino out.


LaStarza was in fact #1, he beat layne who had just beat Charles. Cokell was #2, The only time Rocky did not meet his #1...however it was a test for his new nose and after a layoff, and a Valdes fight would have took place on the east coast that fall, but he lost to Moore.
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Old 06-11-2015, 03:42 PM   #30
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Default Re: Who was the #1 contender when Rocky Marciano fought Ezzard Charles?

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Originally Posted by The Mongoose View Post
LaStarza was in fact #1, he beat layne who had just beat Charles. Cokell was #2, The only time Rocky did not meet his #1...however it was a test for his new nose and after a layoff, and a Valdes fight would have took place on the east coast that fall, but he lost to Moore.
I don't think his choice to take on the #2 contender needs to be defended, which some people sometimes do. Taking on your #2 contender is perfectly reasonable. If your last fight was against your #1 contender, it's more than reasonable, it's great.
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