Boxing  

Forum Home Boxing Forum European British Classic Aussie MMA Training
Go Back   Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > Classic Boxing Forum


Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 03-19-2012, 12:01 PM   #1
Vic-JofreBRASIL
Champion
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 8,697
vCash: 1166
Default Roy Jones Jr vs Bob Fitzsimmons by Bert Sugar

Im pretty sure that this matchup was discussed before here.....but Im reading this book and I think would be interesting to read opinions on what Bert Sugar said about Roy vs Fitz....

source:
[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]


"Fitzsimmons fought in the manner of the day except for that left hook, straight up and with little or no movement, and would have been no match for Jones, historic greatness or no.

OUTCOME: Jones by early-round KO." by Bert Sugar


Im not too familiar with Sugar to be honest, this is the first time Im reading some of his books....but I didnt expect this opinion because he was always a writer who loved the old timers (that was always my impression anyway), and would be nice to know your opinions guys.....not only on this comment about this matchup, but on him in general....

Last edited by Vic-JofreBRASIL; 03-19-2012 at 12:13 PM.
Vic-JofreBRASIL is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 03-19-2012, 12:05 PM   #2
McGrain
Diamond Dog
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 37,182
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Roy Jones Jr vs Bob Fitzsimmons by Bert Sugar

He's a ****ing nut and something of a liability who seems to be generally despised by "serious" writers - or rather newspaper men - but he can tell a yarn. Rather self-involved and has an terribly high opinion of himself. I don't care for the man, personally, and I don't read his books. His lists are notoriously bad.

Jones should beat Fitz but he might get KTFO.
McGrain is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2012, 12:06 PM   #3
El Bujia
Champion
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: The dirty dirty.
Posts: 5,376
vCash: 500
Default Re: Roy Jones Jr vs Bob Fitzsimmons by Bert Sugar

I'm shocked, to be honest. I agree with him, though.
El Bujia is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2012, 12:10 PM   #4
Vic-JofreBRASIL
Champion
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 8,697
vCash: 1166
Default Re: Roy Jones Jr vs Bob Fitzsimmons by Bert Sugar

Quote:
Originally Posted by McGrain View Post
He's a ****ing nut and something of a liability who seems to be generally despised by "serious" writers - or rather newspaper men - but he can tell a yarn. Rather self-involved and has an terribly high opinion of himself. I don't care for the man, personally, and I don't read his books. His lists are notoriously bad.

Jones should beat Fitz but he might get KTFO.
There are a few odd stories on the book I have to say.....Ill post here sometime in another thread for discussion and to know how true those things really are...
Vic-JofreBRASIL is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2012, 04:23 PM   #5
Vic-JofreBRASIL
Champion
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 8,697
vCash: 1166
Default Re: Roy Jones Jr vs Bob Fitzsimmons by Bert Sugar

bump
Vic-JofreBRASIL is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2012, 04:33 PM   #6
thistle1
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 2,097
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Roy Jones Jr vs Bob Fitzsimmons by Bert Sugar

Sugar was won over by the Jones Jr hype and was among those claiming him the as greatest next best thing... He like the rest of us learned different.

Sugar is not a past is neccessarily better man, he is a self promoter and knows what to say to stay in vogue, he is a Boxing historian "General", bits & bites about lots of fighters, BUT NOT a serious scholar or researcher on all things Pugulistic...

don't treat as gospel.
thistle1 is online now  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2012, 04:42 PM   #7
Seamus
Undisputed Champion
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Lisboa, Portugal
Posts: 12,262
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Roy Jones Jr vs Bob Fitzsimmons by Bert Sugar

Quote:
Originally Posted by thistle1 View Post
Sugar was won over by the Jones Jr hype and was among those claiming him the as greatest next best thing... He like the rest of us learned different.
Had Roy retired at 34 years old, as heavyweight belt holder, 48-1 with the one loss being a DQ, holder of god knows how many belts, he would have rightly been in the top-15 P4P all-time. His fights were generally not even close and often had shockingly violent ends.

But as Classicists weigh heavily a fighter's intelligence in when to call it quits and love to pile on regarding losses at a time when said fighters should be long retired.
Seamus is online now  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2012, 04:54 PM   #8
the cobra
Awesomeizationism!
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 5,982
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Roy Jones Jr vs Bob Fitzsimmons by Bert Sugar

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seamus View Post
Had Roy retired at 34 years old, as heavyweight belt holder, 48-1 with the one loss being a DQ, holder of god knows how many belts, he would have rightly been in the top-15 P4P all-time.
God do I despise this way of thinking.
the cobra is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2012, 05:14 PM   #9
Garrus
Big Boss 1935-2014
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: A Hero Forever Loyal To The Flames Of War, Rests in Outer Heaven
Posts: 2,436
vCash: 157
Default Re: Roy Jones Jr vs Bob Fitzsimmons by Bert Sugar

Quote:
Originally Posted by the cobra View Post
God do I despise this way of thinking.
What do you mean?
Garrus is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2012, 05:16 PM   #10
DonBoxer
The Lion!
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: In Vitalis cut.
Posts: 4,033
vCash: 75
Default Re: Roy Jones Jr vs Bob Fitzsimmons by Bert Sugar

I do as much as i can to avoid paying serious attention to Sugar.

Hes right for once here though.
DonBoxer is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2012, 05:29 PM   #11
El Bujia
Champion
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: The dirty dirty.
Posts: 5,376
vCash: 500
Default Re: Roy Jones Jr vs Bob Fitzsimmons by Bert Sugar

Quote:
Originally Posted by the cobra View Post
God do I despise this way of thinking.
I'm on board with ya there.
El Bujia is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2012, 05:41 PM   #12
Seamus
Undisputed Champion
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Lisboa, Portugal
Posts: 12,262
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Roy Jones Jr vs Bob Fitzsimmons by Bert Sugar

Quote:
Originally Posted by the cobra View Post
God do I despise this way of thinking.
Please to elaborate. Had Roy quit when Roy should have, and when most sensible boxers do, he would have had quite a resume, would have looked fantastic on film, have beaten two of the very best boxers of his generation, and would have had one loss by DQ. Your reasoning, if I am to assume, suggests Roy was around for 50 fights against world class opposition, hiding weaknesses that were only exposed in his 36th year. The previous decade plus as a professional fighter he was able to conceal these flaws, against some of the best of his generation. So, Roy didn't get old. He got exposed. Is this correct?
Seamus is online now  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2012, 06:28 PM   #13
thistle1
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 2,097
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Roy Jones Jr vs Bob Fitzsimmons by Bert Sugar

some people are nostalgic sure, some people aren't historians, sure...

But you Seamus are "set in stone", yes you have good knowledge, better than me I'm sure - but you are Sold on Modern is Tops... OK fair enough, But how can people refuse point blank certain unchangeable facts.

DOZENS & HUNDREDS of fights,
MOSTLY against TOP fighters
THOUSANDS of fighters, making COMP much, much harder
8 Divisions = ONE (1), CHAMPION
YEARS at the Top
and YEARS in, and 30, 40, 50 fights before getting near National titles, World classification and/or world rankings...

Fighting at your Natural weight (RRJ would have been a L-HW cum HW, Hopkins too
it just goes on & on

there IS NO Comparrison.

but I give up, you win.
thistle1 is online now  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2012, 07:09 PM   #14
PowerPuncher
P4P King
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 20,610
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Roy Jones Jr vs Bob Fitzsimmons by Bert Sugar

I'm shocked Sugar didn't go for the old timer. But then again anyone picking someone with this stance over the fastest P4P hands in history is mentally retarded or in denial

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

And can someone tell me what's going on here?

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
PowerPuncher is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2012, 07:52 PM   #15
lufcrazy
requiescat in pace
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: England, Up North
Posts: 22,740
vCash: 330
Default Re: Roy Jones Jr vs Bob Fitzsimmons by Bert Sugar

Seamus, he still achieved those exact achievements.

I don't understand those who give points for an early retirement.

Fitz is truly one of the greatest ever and his skills do stand the test of time but someone who in them days was classed as a defensive wizard counter puncher would probably be seen now as a heavy handed boxer puncher.

If fitz lands on a lhw, he wins imo. Maybe only greb has the required chin to avoid the ko.

That being said, roy is my choice for lhw h2h king. People can harp on about past prime losses but they don't mean anything to me.

The tarver ko loss initially looked bad to me, but knowing what we now know, I can summise that without the drastic draining he'd have more strength, more energy and would have been more likely to beat the count had he been prime.

Even the great ezzard charles or gene tunney or archie moore are not guys I favour to beat jones. Honestly he has the ability to pot shot his way to victory over anyone from mw to lhw.

In theory greb's relentless pressure and angles could cause problems but without film I can't give him the benefit of the doubt.

The next best style to beat him would be timed counter shots, but noone, to date, has demonstrated the timing to beat that speed consistently over a full fight.

Every so often maybe fitz, langford, foster and moore do stop him, but a punchers's chance isn't something i'd bet on.

Would roy stop fitz? I doubt it. James j came from behind to physical overwhelm him but over than that he never came close to being stopped in his prime and the more aggressive roy is the more open he is to a counter shot so i'd say he plays it safe to a wide ud.
lufcrazy is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Reply

Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > Classic Boxing Forum

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump





All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:33 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Boxing News 24 Forum 2013