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Old 03-19-2012, 09:14 PM   #16
Lord Tywin
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Default Re: Roy Jones Jr vs Bob Fitzsimmons by Bert Sugar

The real question is how large the team of elephants it would take to get Roy Jones into the ring with Fitzsimmons would have been?

We can bandy about these mythical matchups all day long but the real fantasy is that Jones fights someone as great as Fitz anywhere near his prime.
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Old 03-20-2012, 06:03 AM   #17
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Default Re: Roy Jones Jr vs Bob Fitzsimmons by Bert Sugar

Lord,

What gives you that impression? Why wouldn't Roy have took the fight if they'd been in the same era?
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Old 03-20-2012, 08:00 AM   #18
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Default Re: Roy Jones Jr vs Bob Fitzsimmons by Bert Sugar

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Originally Posted by Seamus View Post
Had Roy retired at 34 years old, as heavyweight belt holder, 48-1 with the one loss being a DQ, holder of god knows how many belts, he would have rightly been in the top-15 P4P all-time. His fights were generally not even close and often had shockingly violent ends.
He might well have been so regarded in that scenario, but it would have been entirely undeserved.

If Jones realy wanted to be rated alongside Fitzsimmons, he could have gone after all of the most dangerous fighters of his era.

He chose not to, and that is why he can never be as great as Fitzsimmons.
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Old 03-20-2012, 08:06 AM   #19
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Default Re: Roy Jones Jr vs Bob Fitzsimmons by Bert Sugar

Wow, im honestly shocked as soon as i saw the thread title i expected Sugar to say something along the lines of "Fitz would take Jones' head off" or some ridiculous shit, I completely agree with the outcome.
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Old 03-20-2012, 10:19 AM   #20
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Default Re: Roy Jones Jr vs Bob Fitzsimmons by Bert Sugar

Janitor,

realistically, who should he have fought? I've heard this so many times. A lot of fights didn't come off for various reasons. The only name that should have been there really, was Dariusz. The fight could never get made, Roy wouldn't go to Germany (why should he have? being the p4p no.1?) and Dariusz could never agree to terms to come to the U.S.

This has been discussed before in a previous thread. This always gets thrown at Roy, but who should he have fought in your opinion? Calzaghe's name always gets thrown around, aswell as Benn and Eubanks etc. Joe was a nobody outside of the U.K. when Roy was at the top of his game. Roy wanted the Benn fight, but Don King wanted a three fight option on him. Eubank openly admitted that he never chased the big fights in the U.S. and was happy defending his belt at home on Sky.

Above are just three examples. So who in your opinion did he chose not to fight, who would added to his legacy? We know Collins etc wanted to fight him, but that woudn't have addd to his legacy.

Regards, Loudon.
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Old 03-20-2012, 10:32 AM   #21
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Default Re: Roy Jones Jr vs Bob Fitzsimmons by Bert Sugar

I think Collins would indeed have added to his legacy. I think Benn and Eubank would have too, and certainly would have calmed the people who make claims about his never having met great punchers. I also think rematches with Hopkins and Toney enhance his legacy, and a couple more fights at HW unquestionably would have.

It's funny. Now Jones is utterly washed up he'll fight anyone. When he was in his prime, he drove a hard bargain. The frustration concerning his resume isn't exclusively an excuse to run him down in my opinion. Many people who think he was wonderful feel frustrated because his talent was up there and his resume really isn't - but it could have been.
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Old 03-20-2012, 10:38 AM   #22
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Default Re: Roy Jones Jr vs Bob Fitzsimmons by Bert Sugar

Assigning absolutely no blame here, but imo the following would have improved his legacy:

Mw: jackson, mcclelland

Smw: benn

Lhw: dm.

Chances are he could have also beaten tyson and holyfield at hw as well instead of dropping back to lhw.

The guy was such a phenomenal talent. Those 4 would have made a fair difference imo. They wouldn't have been his best 4 victories but they'd have been a great addition to his already great resume.
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Old 03-20-2012, 10:40 AM   #23
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Default Re: Roy Jones Jr vs Bob Fitzsimmons by Bert Sugar

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Originally Posted by PowerPuncher View Post

And can someone tell me what's going on here?

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

It's a little known fact that during this fight, a small swarm of bees interfered with the fighters. This is a picture of them as they swatted and flailed away at their pesky intruders...

Due to the poor quality of the photo, the bees aren't visible, but the proof lies in the fighter's desperate attempt to rid themselves of this swarm as to continue fighting, frozen in time forever...
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Old 03-20-2012, 11:31 AM   #24
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Default Re: Roy Jones Jr vs Bob Fitzsimmons by Bert Sugar

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Originally Posted by janitor View Post
He might well have been so regarded in that scenario, but it would have been entirely undeserved.

If Jones realy wanted to be rated alongside Fitzsimmons, he could have gone after all of the most dangerous fighters of his era.

He chose not to, and that is why he can never be as great as Fitzsimmons.
Yeah, I know. Roy should have scoured the docks for some fistic marvel like Peter Maher rather than fight scrubs like Hopkins and Toney.
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Old 03-20-2012, 11:39 AM   #25
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Default Re: Roy Jones Jr vs Bob Fitzsimmons by Bert Sugar

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I'm shocked Sugar didn't go for the old timer. But then again anyone picking someone with this stance over the fastest P4P hands in history is mentally retarded or in denial

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And can someone tell me what's going on here?

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them pants dont do him any favours either.


Though in 19th century rules, Bob would whup Roy, Roy would be at sea with all the rules and machinations of the game of the time.
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Old 03-20-2012, 11:45 AM   #26
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Default Re: Roy Jones Jr vs Bob Fitzsimmons by Bert Sugar

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them pants dont do him any favours either.


Though in 19th century rules, Bob would whup Roy, Roy would be at sea with all the rules and machinations of the game of the time.
How would the rules favor Fitz? I would think a slower pace with what would seem like all the time in the world to see a single punch coming would favor Roy...

He would have a countering festival.
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Old 03-20-2012, 11:46 AM   #27
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Default Re: Roy Jones Jr vs Bob Fitzsimmons by Bert Sugar

If Roy has fragile hands he could certainly lose a fight to Fitz in his own era, I guess.
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Old 03-20-2012, 11:48 AM   #28
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Default Re: Roy Jones Jr vs Bob Fitzsimmons by Bert Sugar

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Originally Posted by DaveK View Post
How would the rules favor Fitz? I would think a slower pace with what would seem like all the time in the world to see a single punch coming would favor Roy...

He would have a countering festival.
I was thinking standing over a man and hitting him as he gets up, or faking a fall by putting a knee on the ground. Probably more intricacies I am not aware of.
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Old 03-20-2012, 11:55 AM   #29
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Default Re: Roy Jones Jr vs Bob Fitzsimmons by Bert Sugar

McGrain,

Hi mate, i'd have loved to seen those fights. They would have been great. But you can't fight everyone, and it's not as simple as, Roy simply didn't want to face them. They were many factors on why certain fights couldn't get made. But all the blame gets laid at Roy's door and people call him a ducker, which is ridiculous.

I don't see how Collins would have added anything to his Legacy. Steve wanted to fight him in 1996. Roy at that point was trying to claim all the light heavy belts and had beaten McCallum (past his best) who had beaten Collins. Steve badly wanted the fight, but Roy wasn't interested. Steve brought nothing to the table. If Collins had've had a belt at 175, I'm sure they would have fought. From a British point of view, it would have been a huge fight, but from Roy's perspective it wasn't. He went on the gain all of the 175 belts apart from Dariusz's. Along the way, he fought Reggie Johnson, who had also beaten Collins.

Benn, would have been a great fight. Benn was one of my favourite fighters. As I stated in my previous post, they both wanted the fight but Don King wanted to tie Roy into a 3 fight contract. Roy didn't want to be tied to King, he just wanted the one fight. I must have heard a hundred people say, Roy ducked Benn, he didn't want to fight him etc. But Don King blocked the fight, and Roy didn't want King to have that much control over him. Roy reluctantly had Don as his promoter for a few of his fights during his career, but they were all one off fights.

Eubank, openly stated that he never chased the big money fights. I don't know if you're aware of this, but Toney was due to fight the winner of Benn vs Eubank 2 in 1993. Nigel and Chris were on a tv show (I think with Jonathan Ross) to hype their fight, and during the interview they played a James Toney interview to Nigel, Chris and the studio audience, and Toney bad mouthed both fighters. Eubank was extremely annoyed after they'd played it. As we all know the fight was a draw, so the fight never got made.

I think if somebody had've won, and then had've fought and beaten Toney, then A fight with Roy may have been possible.

Hopkins rematch, all they had to do was agree to 60% to the winner and 40% to the loser. It was the battle of the ego's and neither one would back down. But at the start of the infamous 60-40 I'll kick yo ass interview, Hopkins originally states he wants more money, which was ridiculous! Roy already had a win over him, and was the Pound for Pound No. 1 fighter in the world. There was no way Roy was going to accept less or even give him a 50/50 share.

Roy wasn't that bothered about the fight, It was Hopkins who wanted to avenge the loss, but he couldn't have wanted it that badly, because he'd never give Roy the Majority share. Now If Hopkins had've been considered the best fighter in the world, with a win over Roy, do you think he'd have given Roy an even share? Roy was fighting 2weight divisions above at 175. He's wasn't going to come down in weight, to fight a guy who he's already beaten for less, or even for half of the share. Bernard wouldn't have done it, if he'd have been in the same position. If Hopkins had've taken the lower share, that fight could have been made.

Toney, Why would he have needed to rematch James Toney? Toney never wanted a rematch. The biggest mouth in boxing never once mentioned anything to anyone about a rematch with Roy. After their fight in Nov 94, He congratulated Roy, said he'd had trouble making the weight, and said he'd be coming back at 175. He never mentioned anything about a rematch at 175. When Roy moved up to 175, again there was no mention. Even in 2003 when Roy went to heavy there was no mention.

James didn't want one, and Roy was certainly never going to chase for one.

So agree, these fights would have been great, but it's not as simple as saying Roy just wasn't interested.

Regards, Loudon.
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Old 03-20-2012, 12:08 PM   #30
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Default Re: Roy Jones Jr vs Bob Fitzsimmons by Bert Sugar

Back to the main issue, I'm not sure ... wish quality film of those guys existed .. the newspaper coverage of Fitz at the time commented time and again on his superb speed ... while technique has changed for sure speed, stamina and power have not .. it's too hard to say ... real speculation ...
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