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Old 07-24-2008, 08:30 PM   #1
Mendoza
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Default When did Sugar Ray Robinson's decline start?

When did Sugar Ray Robinson's decline start?
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Old 07-24-2008, 09:08 PM   #2
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Default Re: When did Sugar Ray Robinson's decline start?

He took that tour to Europe and got beat by Randy Turpin....then it seemed like every other big MW Title fight he won/lost.......except if it was
Carl 'Bobo" Olsen.......then he just blasted out Bobo just as quickly as possible to regain his title that had been "on loan".

Probably when Tiger Jones beat him around 1955 was when the real decline began to show.
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Old 07-24-2008, 09:23 PM   #3
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Default Re: When did Sugar Ray Robinson's decline start?

when he moved up from welter to middle was the start of his decline. so i would say around 1951
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Old 07-24-2008, 09:46 PM   #4
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Default Re: When did Sugar Ray Robinson's decline start?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuzieQ49
when he moved up from welter to middle was the start of his decline. so i would say around 1951
SuzieQ49, I think Robinson's decline stated around '51 as well...Without looking it up, how long had he been a professional? 14 years or so? Robinson did indeed have some great fights in following years after the LaMotta fight and during his comeback.
I remember an old article in The Ring saying something to the effect that Robinson's legs were definitely not the same after the comeback...in fact after the loss to Tiger Jones, they said his legs were GONE...and one could arguably say the LaMotta fight was his last true great effort in the ring. That's why I consider Robinson to be the best...No one accomplished more given the consideration of the wear and tear he had to have gone through after being a great, world class fighter for so long...I cannot think of a single welterweight/middleweight who could have fought evenly with the world's best at that point towards the end of his career...and as I said...that's why I consider Robinson as the best.
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Old 07-24-2008, 09:47 PM   #5
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Default Re: When did Sugar Ray Robinson's decline start?

The real decline imo is perhaps the last 2 Fullmer fights, and the Pendler fights thown in there some were. He was still a top fighter of couse, and could very well lick most of the elite of that era, but that was when he started to slide.
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Old 07-24-2008, 09:56 PM   #6
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Default Re: When did Sugar Ray Robinson's decline start?

..............Seeing as no real footage of Ray at welterweight has been seen by any of us (snippets of a fight here and there don't count, you know what I mean), I don't know how anyone could drive a stake in the ground on this question and say "HERE! The decline was here!" Without the first part of his career to go on, it's all guesswork.
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Old 07-24-2008, 10:09 PM   #7
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Default Re: When did Sugar Ray Robinson's decline start?

Going via the plentiful articles on the man including from our very own John Garfield (a man i have immense trust and faith in) i will go for sometime around 1950. This was the last time he made welter i think, and without doubt he was a totally natural 147 pound fighter much like Leonard was too. Once he moved up he lost some natural advantages and effectiveness and he had also hit about 30 years of age which for many or most is getting a little past it.
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Old 07-25-2008, 12:26 AM   #8
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Default Re: When did Sugar Ray Robinson's decline start?

Mature Robinson was natural light middleweight, not welterweight. Mature meaning late 1940's. He clearly had outgrown 147 lbs, and even if he was keeping himself in shape and doing hard training, he had really big troubles making that weight again.
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Old 07-25-2008, 02:53 PM   #9
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Default Re: When did Sugar Ray Robinson's decline start?

According to Ray, he said he felt he was starting to decline at age 28-29.
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Old 07-25-2008, 03:05 PM   #10
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Default Re: When did Sugar Ray Robinson's decline start?

Ray was still close to his prime when he beat LaMotta for the title. His retirement after losing to Maxim was definately the most notable dividing line. He was never the same coming back.
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Old 07-25-2008, 03:31 PM   #11
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Default Re: When did Sugar Ray Robinson's decline start?

A few publications I've come across we're even talking about the "declining Ray" since his Gavilan fights. One off the top of my head was from The Ring.
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Old 07-26-2008, 11:35 AM   #12
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Default Re: When did Sugar Ray Robinson's decline start?

Bumping this up because I'd like to read the opinion of one poster....
JG, are you out there?
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Old 07-26-2008, 11:40 AM   #13
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Default Re: When did Sugar Ray Robinson's decline start?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dpw417
Bumping this up because I'd like to read the opinion of one poster....
JG, are you out there?
JG will tell you beyond doubt when the decline was. Great call.
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Old 07-26-2008, 11:43 AM   #14
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Default Re: When did Sugar Ray Robinson's decline start?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnThomas1
JG will tell you beyond doubt when the decline was. Great call.
Cheers, JT
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Old 07-26-2008, 08:34 PM   #15
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Default Re: When did Sugar Ray Robinson's decline start?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuzieQ49
when he moved up from welter to middle was the start of his decline. so i would say around 1951
This is true although he was still good enough to beat any MWT in the world at that time so he REALLY started to decline after his 1st retirement, all that time away took something from him that he never got back.
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