The best five MW's Sugar Ray beat and how that compares to Monzon and Hagler's five?

McGrain · 03-22-2012, 10:54 AM

What are your thoughts, gents?

DaveK · 03-22-2012, 10:59 AM

I don't even think he had 5 fights at middleweight, or is that your point?

If he did, it doesn't stack up against the other two.

McGrain · 03-22-2012, 11:01 AM

...Sugar Ray Robinson, Dave. Sugar Ray Robinson.

DaveK · 03-22-2012, 11:05 AM

For the love of God... I swear I read Leonard in there... It's early. Sorry.

McGrain · 03-22-2012, 11:06 AM

I forgive you...but write this down...there's only one Sugar Ray.

DonBoxer · 03-22-2012, 11:29 AM

Not in any order.

Robinson:

LaMotta
Fullmer
Olsen
Turpin
Graziano

Monzon:

Benvenuti
Valdez
Griffith
Bouttier
Licata

Halger:
Hearns
Mugabi
Duran
Roldan
Minter

I think that they are all fairly comparable in terms of quality, maybe Monzons is slightly better on average.

McGrain · 03-22-2012, 11:31 AM

That's a decent stab, are we sure Duran belongs?

DaveK · 03-22-2012, 11:34 AM

That's the funny thing; I don't refer to Leonard as "Sugar"... I had a boxing convo with a buddy last night and that's how he refers to Leonard: "Sugar", and it kind of irks me... I think it's a residual side effect from that.

At least that's my excuse for now...

As for Robinson's middleweights comp, we're talking LaMotta, Fullmer, and then it gets sketchy. Alot of guys who are past their best weight or past it a bit.

I'm not sure if Turpin or Basilio or Olson should be considered over fighters who are lesser known but better fighters at the time they fought Robinson.

For Hagler, we have Hearns, Minter, Hamsho, and a bunch of other really tough dudes like Antuofermo and those Philly guys... Duran and Leonard's actual middleweight ability is debatable, but as fighters, they aren't, so this is all subjective.

Monzon has Benvenuti and Valdez, and Briscoe and after that, some names that are past it or past their best...

Looks like the same story for all three to me- plenty of good/great fighters, but not all at their best when they fought. I'm not qualified to debate the nit-picking of all tihs...

DonBoxer · 03-22-2012, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by McGrain

That's a decent stab, are we sure Duran belongs?

I think so, although i only rate him at middleweight because of his performance against Hagler so i guess its a bit of a paradox. Not including him i would say gives Robsion the 2nd spot on who has the best 5 scalps. Although i would still say Haglers overall resume at middleweight is greater than Robsions.

DaveK · 03-22-2012, 11:37 AM

So are we talking about the most dangerous/toughest comp at the time they fought the fighters in question, or are we talking best fighters overall, regardless of if they're past it a bit or out of their weight class? Napoles being a prime example for Monzon...

DaveK · 03-22-2012, 11:41 AM

It looks to me like Monzon and Robinson have the more volume, but Monzon fought alot in Argentina and has alot of names on his list, but not great versions of many...

Robinson fought a ton of middles, but overall, the comp wasn't all that great, plus he was inconsistent.

Hagler seems to have the most danger-dense resume. Almost from the beginning, he had it rough. As far as being thrown in with really tough guys on the most consistent basis, Hagler takes this easy.

salsanchezfan · 03-22-2012, 11:53 AM

Robinson:

Lamotta
Fullmer
Turpin
Giardello
#5 is probably someone like a Belloise or Basora, some under the radar guy like that rather than a Basilio or Olsen.

Monzon:

Benvenuti
Griffith
Valdez
Moyer
Briscoe

Hagler:

Hearns
Leonard
Hamsho
Antuofermo
#5 would be a push between an aged Briscoe, Hart or maybe Monroe. I don't think Mugabi qualifies here.

On paper, I like Robinson's opposition best.

salsanchezfan · 03-22-2012, 11:55 AM

Gah............forgot Minter for Hagler. He should definitely be there. Helps him close the gap between he and Monzon considerably too.........

lora · 03-22-2012, 11:58 AM

Antuofermo was past it when Hagler beat him, unles it's the Draw version you're counting as a win, like Leonard.

lora · 03-22-2012, 12:01 PM

Hearns
Monroe
Sibson
Hamsho
Minter

Duran, Finnegan, MUgabi and the Draw version of Vito could be swapped in as well.Lots of arguable ones for Marvin.

Licata was the worst fighter Monzon defended against imo.5 or 6 out of ten standup fighter across the board.No notable attributes and the most padded record of the Monzon contenders.

03-22-2012, 10:54 AM	#1
McGrain Diamond Dog East Side VIP Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 63,261 vCash: 1000	The best five MW's Sugar Ray beat and how that compares to Monzon and Hagler's five? What are your thoughts, gents?
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03-22-2012, 10:59 AM	#2
DaveK Vicious & Malicious ESB Addict Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 1,858 vCash: 1000	Re: The best five MW's Sugar Ray beat and how that compares to Monzon and Hagler's fi I don't even think he had 5 fights at middleweight, or is that your point? If he did, it doesn't stack up against the other two.
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03-22-2012, 11:01 AM	#3
McGrain Diamond Dog East Side VIP Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 63,261 vCash: 1000	Re: The best five MW's Sugar Ray beat and how that compares to Monzon and Hagler's fi ...Sugar Ray Robinson, Dave. Sugar Ray Robinson.
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03-22-2012, 11:05 AM	#4
DaveK Vicious & Malicious ESB Addict Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 1,858 vCash: 1000	Re: The best five MW's Sugar Ray beat and how that compares to Monzon and Hagler's fi For the love of God... I swear I read Leonard in there... It's early. Sorry.
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03-22-2012, 11:06 AM	#5
McGrain Diamond Dog East Side VIP Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 63,261 vCash: 1000	Re: The best five MW's Sugar Ray beat and how that compares to Monzon and Hagler's fi I forgive you...but write this down...there's only one Sugar Ray.
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03-22-2012, 11:29 AM	#6
DonBoxer The Lion! East Side Guru Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: In Vitalis cut. Posts: 5,489 vCash: 75	Re: The best five MW's Sugar Ray beat and how that compares to Monzon and Hagler's fi Not in any order. Robinson: LaMotta Fullmer Olsen Turpin Graziano Monzon: Benvenuti Valdez Griffith Bouttier Licata Halger: Hearns Mugabi Duran Roldan Minter I think that they are all fairly comparable in terms of quality, maybe Monzons is slightly better on average.
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03-22-2012, 11:31 AM	#7
McGrain Diamond Dog East Side VIP Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 63,261 vCash: 1000	Re: The best five MW's Sugar Ray beat and how that compares to Monzon and Hagler's fi That's a decent stab, are we sure Duran belongs?
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03-22-2012, 11:34 AM	#8
DaveK Vicious & Malicious ESB Addict Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 1,858 vCash: 1000	Re: The best five MW's Sugar Ray beat and how that compares to Monzon and Hagler's fi That's the funny thing; I don't refer to Leonard as "Sugar"... I had a boxing convo with a buddy last night and that's how he refers to Leonard: "Sugar", and it kind of irks me... I think it's a residual side effect from that. At least that's my excuse for now... As for Robinson's middleweights comp, we're talking LaMotta, Fullmer, and then it gets sketchy. Alot of guys who are past their best weight or past it a bit. I'm not sure if Turpin or Basilio or Olson should be considered over fighters who are lesser known but better fighters at the time they fought Robinson. For Hagler, we have Hearns, Minter, Hamsho, and a bunch of other really tough dudes like Antuofermo and those Philly guys... Duran and Leonard's actual middleweight ability is debatable, but as fighters, they aren't, so this is all subjective. Monzon has Benvenuti and Valdez, and Briscoe and after that, some names that are past it or past their best... Looks like the same story for all three to me- plenty of good/great fighters, but not all at their best when they fought. I'm not qualified to debate the nit-picking of all tihs...
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03-22-2012, 11:37 AM	#10
DaveK Vicious & Malicious ESB Addict Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 1,858 vCash: 1000	Re: The best five MW's Sugar Ray beat and how that compares to Monzon and Hagler's fi So are we talking about the most dangerous/toughest comp at the time they fought the fighters in question, or are we talking best fighters overall, regardless of if they're past it a bit or out of their weight class? Napoles being a prime example for Monzon...
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03-22-2012, 11:41 AM	#11
DaveK Vicious & Malicious ESB Addict Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 1,858 vCash: 1000	Re: The best five MW's Sugar Ray beat and how that compares to Monzon and Hagler's fi It looks to me like Monzon and Robinson have the more volume, but Monzon fought alot in Argentina and has alot of names on his list, but not great versions of many... Robinson fought a ton of middles, but overall, the comp wasn't all that great, plus he was inconsistent. Hagler seems to have the most danger-dense resume. Almost from the beginning, he had it rough. As far as being thrown in with really tough guys on the most consistent basis, Hagler takes this easy.
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03-22-2012, 11:53 AM	#12
salsanchezfan Champion East Side Guru Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Auburn, WA Posts: 6,895 vCash: 1000	Re: The best five MW's Sugar Ray beat and how that compares to Monzon and Hagler's fi Robinson: Lamotta Fullmer Turpin Giardello #5 is probably someone like a Belloise or Basora, some under the radar guy like that rather than a Basilio or Olsen. Monzon: Benvenuti Griffith Valdez Moyer Briscoe Hagler: Hearns Leonard Hamsho Antuofermo #5 would be a push between an aged Briscoe, Hart or maybe Monroe. I don't think Mugabi qualifies here. On paper, I like Robinson's opposition best.
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03-22-2012, 11:55 AM	#13
salsanchezfan Champion East Side Guru Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Auburn, WA Posts: 6,895 vCash: 1000	Re: The best five MW's Sugar Ray beat and how that compares to Monzon and Hagler's fi Gah............forgot Minter for Hagler. He should definitely be there. Helps him close the gap between he and Monzon considerably too.........
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03-22-2012, 11:58 AM	#14
lora Fighting Zapata East Side Guru Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 5,455 vCash: 500	Re: The best five MW's Sugar Ray beat and how that compares to Monzon and Hagler's fi Antuofermo was past it when Hagler beat him, unles it's the Draw version you're counting as a win, like Leonard.
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03-22-2012, 12:01 PM	#15
lora Fighting Zapata East Side Guru Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 5,455 vCash: 500	Re: The best five MW's Sugar Ray beat and how that compares to Monzon and Hagler's fi Hearns Monroe Sibson Hamsho Minter Duran, Finnegan, MUgabi and the Draw version of Vito could be swapped in as well.Lots of arguable ones for Marvin. Licata was the worst fighter Monzon defended against imo.5 or 6 out of ten standup fighter across the board.No notable attributes and the most padded record of the Monzon contenders.
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