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Old 05-17-2008, 10:27 PM   #1
salsanchezfan
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Default What Fighter's Downfall Saddened You The Most?

.............Maybe it was a gradual slide that you saw coming from some distance. Maybe it was a sudden crash that took you by surprise, and things were never the same for him after that.

Which would you pick?
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Old 05-17-2008, 10:38 PM   #2
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Default Re: What Fighter's Downfall Saddened You The Most?

Probably Tyson
Meldrick Taylor
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Old 05-17-2008, 11:07 PM   #3
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Default Re: What Fighter's Downfall Saddened You The Most?

Michael Spinks, this guy could have seriously done more after the tyson loss. Qawi and Eddie Mustafa are better than any middleweights Hagler ever beat, so i'm surprised Hagler gets ranked higher for beating hearns, duran and antuofermo.

Imagine if Spinks beat 3 or 4 more legit heavyweights, his p4p ranking would have gone through the roof.
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Old 05-17-2008, 11:29 PM   #4
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Default Re: What Fighter's Downfall Saddened You The Most?

It's funny, i couldn't stand Larry Holmes for years but warmed to him a little in the last stages of his first career. By the time the Spinks rematch came around i found myself cheering the bugger on like crazy, and then he got ripped. After that i also felt pretty sorry for the guy because in numerous earlier interviews i have of him he always mentioned his fear was in fighting on like Ali when the skill was gone. He was deadset never going to do it, and then he does for longer than Ali himself EVER did. I found that very sad, but the saving grace is he never got seriously hurt and sure has his faculties intact today.

Apart from that obviously Hearns for me, i rode out the wobbly storms with him when he was obviously far decayed and feared for him at times like the SRL rematch and Hill fights.
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Old 05-17-2008, 11:56 PM   #5
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Default Re: What Fighter's Downfall Saddened You The Most?

Watching Ali get beat by Spinks. Shavers getting beat by Cobb.
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Old 05-18-2008, 12:09 AM   #6
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Default Re: What Fighter's Downfall Saddened You The Most?

Quote:
Originally Posted by brownpimp88
Michael Spinks, this guy could have seriously done more after the tyson loss. Qawi and Eddie Mustafa are better than any middleweights Hagler ever beat, so i'm surprised Hagler gets ranked higher for beating hearns, duran and antuofermo.

Imagine if Spinks beat 3 or 4 more legit heavyweights, his p4p ranking would have gone through the roof.
Hagler never arguably lost to an Eddie Davis level fighter in his prime. I had Davis beating Spinks by a point myself.

And please don't mention the Hagler-Antoufermo fight becuase it was a straight up robbery.
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Old 05-18-2008, 12:12 AM   #7
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Default Re: What Fighter's Downfall Saddened You The Most?

I would say watching Kevin Kelley's, because he had a second-wind in his post-Barrera career, coming back a bit, with some top wins. But Bobby Pacquiao essentially ended it with a fourth round KO, a stark contrast to what would have happened had a prime Kevin Kelley stepped in with Pacquiao.
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Old 05-18-2008, 12:31 AM   #8
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Default Re: What Fighter's Downfall Saddened You The Most?

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Originally Posted by sweet_scientist
Hagler never arguably lost to an Eddie Davis level fighter in his prime. I had Davis beating Spinks by a point myself.

And please don't mention the Hagler-Antoufermo fight becuase it was a straight up robbery.
Wow a single off-night and he's all of a sudden a lesser fighter?

Qawi and Eddie Mustafa were p4p fighters and are a class above antuofermo and minter, the two best middleweights that hagler beat. Even if Eddie was weight drained, a win is a win and its his fault that he allowed himself to get fat. Marvin Johnson is also better than most 'middleweights' that Hagler beat.

Eitherway, Spinks could have seriously been a top 15 p4per, he just allowed that Tyson loss get to him.
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Old 05-18-2008, 12:45 AM   #9
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Default Re: What Fighter's Downfall Saddened You The Most?

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Originally Posted by brownpimp88
Wow a single off-night and he's all of a sudden a lesser fighter?

Qawi and Eddie Mustafa were p4p fighters and are a class above antuofermo and minter, the two best middleweights that hagler beat. Even if Eddie was weight drained, a win is a win and its his fault that he allowed himself to get fat. Marvin Johnson is also better than most 'middleweights' that Hagler beat.

Eitherway, Spinks could have seriously been a top 15 p4per, he just allowed that Tyson loss get to him.
But Hagler also beat Duran, Hearns and arguably Leonard as well. When you add that to the middleweights he beat then he does have a superior resume imo. On the whole I felt he was more dominant than Spinks as well during his prime. Qawi got terribly close and a diminished Muhammad really took it to Spinks too. I don't think Hagler was ever challenged in such a way during his middleweight prime, despite some claiming the Duran fight was close (it wasn't as far as I'm concerned).

For what it's worth, if someone does have Spinks beating Davis and someone has Hagler losing to Leonard, I don't really have an argument against someone placing Spinks higher, but as it stands I don't.
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Old 05-18-2008, 12:52 AM   #10
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But Hagler also beat Duran, Hearns and arguably Leonard as well. When you add that to the middleweights he beat then he does have a superior resume imo. On the whole I felt he was more dominant than Spinks as well during his prime. Qawi got terribly close and a diminished Muhammad really took it to Spinks too. I don't think Hagler was ever challenged in such a way during his middleweight prime, despite some claiming the Duran fight was close (it wasn't as far as I'm concerned).

For what it's worth, if someone does have Spinks beating Davis and someone has Hagler losing to Leonard, I don't really have an argument against someone placing Spinks higher, but as it stands I don't.
So what if he beat Duran and Hearns, which smaller weight fighter is even gonna bother Spinks. I remember spinks calling out Hagler in a KO Magazine back in 82 or 81, funny how Hagler didnt accept the offer.

Spinks was also successfull as a heavyweight, whether he lost the 2nd holmes fight or not. At least he beat him and cooney, when did Hagler beat a light-heavyweight?

I dont think anyone is going to debate that Spinks's light-heavyweight fighters were better than the middleweights hagler was beating.

I value beating a prime p4p ranked fighter like Qawi, over an old duran and a blown up Hearns. Beating a great fighter from your own weight class is alot harder than beating someone 13 pounds north of thier best weight.

Larry Holmes was also a p4p fighter when Spinks beat him, past his prime or not, he was ranked p4p, which is what matters.
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Old 05-18-2008, 01:03 AM   #11
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Default Re: What Fighter's Downfall Saddened You The Most?

Quote:
Originally Posted by brownpimp88
Eitherway, Spinks could have seriously been a top 15 p4per, he just allowed that Tyson loss get to him.
He didn't let the loss get to him at all, what he did was make a very smart retirement at a fine time. He made millions upon millions of dollars and was not into boxing as much as some others have been. The heavyweights were always going to be a short term career for Spinks. He could have easily run into a Douglas, a Tucker or another big strong heavyweight and got derailed again. Spinks retirement is absolute class and it's a pity more don't follow his wisdom. Tyson looked like he was going to be champion for a helluva long time and Spinks was never getting another shot there, and nor would he have probably wanted to. So what's he do, go around fighting non great contenders on the off chance he might rise by some minescule margin in the ATG rankings?
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Old 05-18-2008, 01:05 AM   #12
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Default Re: What Fighter's Downfall Saddened You The Most?

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He didn't let the loss get to him at all, what he did was make a very smart retirement at a fine time. He made millions upon millions of dollars and was not into boxing as much as some others have been. The heavyweights were always going to be a short term career for Spinks. He could have easily run into a Douglas, a Tucker or another big strong heavyweight and got derailed again. Spinks retirement is absolute class and it's a pity more don't follow his wisdom. Tyson looked like he was going to be champion for a helluva long time and Spinks was never getting another shot there, and nor would he have probably wanted to. So what's he do, go around fighting non great contenders on the off chance he might rise by some minescule margin in the ATG rankings?
He could have fought heavyweights like Berbick or cruiserweights like carlos de leon. A fight with Michael dokes would have been great to watch as well.

I'm sure the fans would have loved to seen Holyfield vs Spinks or a clash with the rising star, michael moorer.
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Old 05-18-2008, 01:34 AM   #13
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Default Re: What Fighter's Downfall Saddened You The Most?

Quote:
Originally Posted by brownpimp88
He could have fought heavyweights like Berbick or cruiserweights like carlos de leon. A fight with Michael dokes would have been great to watch as well.

I'm sure the fans would have loved to seen Holyfield vs Spinks or a clash with the rising star, michael moorer.
Maybe he was more worried about living a long prosperous healthy life and enjoying the money he earned. Beating Berbick and DeLeon wouldn't do much at all for him. Nor would they have meant much money. If Spinks no longer had the fire to fight why fight? Once the fire is gone dawg that's it.
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Old 05-18-2008, 01:36 AM   #14
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Default Re: What Fighter's Downfall Saddened You The Most?

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Maybe he was more worried about living a long prosperous healthy life and enjoying the money he earned. Beating Berbick and DeLeon wouldn't do much at all for him. Nor would they have meant much money. If Spinks no longer had the fire to fight why fight? Once the fire is gone dawg that's it.
Well maybe his health was more important, but i think he could have been worldclass until 1991. Which would have lead to fights with guys like moorer, dokes, rudduck. 3 guys he was fully capable of beating.
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Old 05-18-2008, 01:49 AM   #15
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Default Re: What Fighter's Downfall Saddened You The Most?

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Well maybe his health was more important, but i think he could have been worldclass until 1991. Which would have lead to fights with guys like moorer, dokes, rudduck. 3 guys he was fully capable of beating.
I agree with you he would have been competitive, but only if he truly desired to fight. I just think the fire was gone personally. He went thru some life trauma's as well during his boxing.

Perhaps you forget Spinks wife being killed in an auto accident around 1983, with him being left to raise their young daughter. Maybe family time took over near the end once he was satisfied with their financial standing, who knows.
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