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View Poll Results: Who wins?
Fitz wins based on finishing skills 11 61.11%
Carnera is just too big 7 38.89%
Voters: 18. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 03-29-2012, 07:13 PM   #1
janitor
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Default Bob Fitzsimmons vs Primo Carnera

Who wins?

When Carnera was champion, Fitzsimmons was generaly accepted as being one of the greatest heavyweights of all time.

How do they match up today?
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Old 03-29-2012, 09:34 PM   #2
Vic-JofreBRASIL
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Default Re: Bob Fitzsimmons vs Primo Carnera

I voted Carnera is just too big, but is not only that......

Carnera was able to box and from what I saw in Fitzsimmons against Corbett, Carnera was the man with the better mobility between them and I would say with the better jab....
The large difference in size would be decisive in the clinchs too......Carnera would be too strong and would control Fitz there as well......

Good fight Janitor ! Would be interesting to see....but I canīt see Fitz winning this one....
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Old 03-30-2012, 12:43 AM   #3
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Default Re: Bob Fitzsimmons vs Primo Carnera

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic-JofreBRASIL View Post
I voted Carnera is just too big, but is not only that......

Carnera was able to box and from what I saw in Fitzsimmons against Corbett, Carnera was the man with the better mobility between them and I would say with the better jab....
The large difference in size would be decisive in the clinchs too......Carnera would be too strong and would control Fitz there as well......

Good fight Janitor ! Would be interesting to see....but I canīt see Fitz winning this one....
I second this and would add Carnera had a pretty decent chin and ALOT of heart.
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Old 03-30-2012, 03:34 AM   #4
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Default Re: Bob Fitzsimmons vs Primo Carnera

Let us not forget that Fitz starched big Ed Dunkhorst, who was close in size to Carnera. So it's not like Da Preem's size is going to disconcert Lanky Bob. And I don't know that Primo was in a different league than Dunkhorst as far as skill is concerned. Underrated, yes. But nothing awe inspiring.

Fitz could turn the trick. I can't rule him out completely here.
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Old 03-30-2012, 05:32 AM   #5
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Default Re: Bob Fitzsimmons vs Primo Carnera

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic-JofreBRASIL View Post
I voted Carnera is just too big, but is not only that......

Carnera was able to box and from what I saw in Fitzsimmons against Corbett, Carnera was the man with the better mobility between them and I would say with the better jab....
The large difference in size would be decisive in the clinchs too......Carnera would be too strong and would control Fitz there as well......

Good fight Janitor ! Would be interesting to see....but I canīt see Fitz winning this one....
This.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Surf-Bat View Post
Let us not forget that Fitz starched big Ed Dunkhorst, who was close in size to Carnera. So it's not like Da Preem's size is going to disconcert Lanky Bob. And I don't know that Primo was in a different league than Dunkhorst as far as skill is concerned. Underrated, yes. But nothing awe inspiring.

Fitz could turn the trick. I can't rule him out completely here.
And this. Certainly one of the more intriguing heavyweight hypotheticals.

I lean more towards Carnera.
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Old 03-30-2012, 08:57 AM   #6
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Default Re: Bob Fitzsimmons vs Primo Carnera

It'd be fun for as long as it lasts.

With Bob's fair skin and general disadvantages he is prone to get roughed up, but lose...that doesn't sit well.

There will come a time when either a left or right sinks into the Ambling Alp and Fitzsimmons ability to turn the tide will become woefully apparent.

Ted Spoon is under no statistical illusions; the Cornishman was a top-end hitter, and as a tactician he was superb. Invention explodes competency, and as soon as the bout begins Carnera will be juggling dynamite.


The blacksmith was a little rough around the edges, especially when put next to silky Gentleman Jim, but he had two things in spades; grit and the ability to adapt.

Primo can box his man, send out a timid jab, follow up with the right, maybe even score a knockdown. The longer things go, the thinner the ice gets, and Bob was a fighter who shone once he knew your limitations.

Being bigger can be a hindrance when not properly utilised and Carnera was at best fair in terms of coordinating his bulk. What he doesn't do well, and, more importantly, what he doesn't like will be avenues explored rather quickly.

Picking Carnera to win feels like egging someone on to commit a prank, one which has all the enthusiasm but little of the strategic nous to escape the teachers eye. As he did with Corbett a bruised Fitzsimmons will spy something significant, though the end will come before double figures.
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Old 03-30-2012, 09:20 AM   #7
he grant
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Default Re: Bob Fitzsimmons vs Primo Carnera

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted Spoon View Post
It'd be fun for as long as it lasts.

With Bob's fair skin and general disadvantages he is prone to get roughed up, but lose...that doesn't sit well.

There will come a time when either a left or right sinks into the Ambling Alp and Fitzsimmons ability to turn the tide will become woefully apparent.

Ted Spoon is under no statistical illusions; the Cornishman was a top-end hitter, and as a tactician he was superb. Invention explodes competency, and as soon as the bout begins Carnera will be juggling dynamite.


The blacksmith was a little rough around the edges, especially when put next to silky Gentleman Jim, but he had two things in spades; grit and the ability to adapt.

Primo can box his man, send out a timid jab, follow up with the right, maybe even score a knockdown. The longer things go, the thinner the ice gets, and Bob was a fighter who shone once he knew your limitations.

Being bigger can be a hindrance when not properly utilised and Carnera was at best fair in terms of coordinating his bulk. What he doesn't do well, and, more importantly, what he doesn't like will be avenues explored rather quickly.

Picking Carnera to win feels like egging someone on to commit a prank, one which has all the enthusiasm but little of the strategic nous to escape the teachers eye. As he did with Corbett a bruised Fitzsimmons will spy something significant, though the end will come before double figures.
As is often the case this can be a ref's fight ... if a ref allows Carnera to hug and hold all night like Ali did v.s. Frazier in their second bout it could be dull and ugly ... however in any form of fair fight Fitz would chop him to pieces ... all this nonsense that Fitz was some stilted cartoon is simply the talk of the uninformed .. he was a calculated, well oiled, merciless, hard as nails, murderous punching fighting machine who dominated his era ...

This is a match up of a smaller , all time great fighter against a huge, very limited fighter ... I like Fitz big, similar to how Louis destroyed him ... I agree that styles have changed over the years and a Fitz would have major adaptations to go through to fight an Ali or a Holmes but not Primo Carnera, a very game but limited fighter ...
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Old 03-30-2012, 11:51 AM   #8
edward morbius
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Default Re: Bob Fitzsimmons vs Primo Carnera

I voted for Fitz after a lot of thought.

Everyone, and I mean everyone, of his time thought of Fitz as a freakish puncher for his size.

Carnera? One of the least respected champions in his own time.

Would size make the difference? On balance, I don't think so. Carnera at his peak went the full 15 with the 186 lb Loughran. When well past his best he was knocked out by the 184 lb Luigi Musina. Musina was a built up lightheavy and not a particularly hard hitting one. Leroy Haynes, who stopped Carnera twice, was less than 200 lbs.

Fitz, on the other hand, proved he could ko men as heavy as Carnera.

So I go with "the bigger they are, the harder they fall."
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Old 03-30-2012, 01:05 PM   #9
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Default Re: Bob Fitzsimmons vs Primo Carnera

Some nice posts here gentlemen, thanks.
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Old 03-30-2012, 01:37 PM   #10
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Default Re: Bob Fitzsimmons vs Primo Carnera

Quote:
Originally Posted by janitor View Post
Who wins?

When Carnera was champion, Fitzsimmons was generaly accepted as being one of the greatest heavyweights of all time.

How do they match up today?
In his 88 wins, Primo registered 72kos, so obviously he hits much too hard for the skinny Cornishman. Blatant mismatch.
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Old 03-30-2012, 01:44 PM   #11
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Default Re: Bob Fitzsimmons vs Primo Carnera

Fight Overview;

'Ruby Bob',,,,,,5' 11" and only 170 lbs. would clearly out-work the big-footed Primo in every round.
Despite his height 6' 5", weight 265 lbs., and 85" reach, Carnera's size advantage plays no
part in this bout.

Not only can Primo 'The Ambling Alp' not win a round, he has hardly landed any telling blows.
Over the first 9 rounds, the 5' 11" Fitzsimmons continuely beats the lumbering Italian to the
punch time and again. Though Carnera has not been hurt, he has been taking a lathering
from the smaller Fitzsimmons. 'Ruby Bob' is pitching a shut-out on the judges scorecards
and only needs to avoid Primo's wild swings over the last 6 rounds to win a wide decision.

In Round 10, 'Ruby Bob' turns up the heat, and increases his velocity of hard punches.
Midway through the round, he lands his famed 'solar plexus punch' which folds Primo in half.
Carnera hurt, takes a knee and a count of '8'. Primo escapes the round by mauling
Fitzsimmons, and uses his 265 lb. mass to smother the shorter 'Ruby Bob'.

In Rounds 11 & 12, Fitzsimmons continues to score without any retaliation from
the bigger Carnera. Big Primo is not only exhausted, but his face is swollen and his
body has been bruised from Fitzsimmons body assault.

In Round 13, 'Ruby Bob' continues his attack, bloodying Carnera's nose and splitting
his lip. Primo is a bloody mess, and he just is looking to survive the distance.
Fitzsimmons tries with his earnest to land the 'coup de grace', but comes up just short.

After the 13th round, Howard Cosell (fight announcer) states that all 'Ruby Bob'
has to do is 'take-a-walk-around-the-park' for the last 2 rounds.
Cosell screams that Fitzsimmons lead is 'insurmountable'.

Round 14 appears to be another easy round for Fitzsimmons, as he scores again and again.
He hits the slow and beaten Primo with an assortment of punches, both to the head and body.
As the round nears the end, with 15-seconds left, Ruby Bob tries to land one more punch.
At the same time, Primo Carnera is throwing an over-hand right with his eyes closed.

Here is the result;

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Last edited by Senor Pepe'; 03-30-2012 at 06:57 PM.
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Old 03-30-2012, 05:46 PM   #12
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Default Re: Bob Fitzsimmons vs Primo Carnera

For whatever it is worth, nobody would have given Carnera a chance when he was champion.

That is why I started this thread, as a yard stick of how much perceptions have changed.
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Old 03-31-2012, 09:33 AM   #13
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Default Re: Bob Fitzsimmons vs Primo Carnera

Quote:
Originally Posted by janitor View Post
For whatever it is worth, nobody would have given Carnera a chance when he was champion.

That is why I started this thread, as a yard stick of how much perceptions have changed.
Nobody would have given Carnera chance against most champs.
It's only posters who have revised the generally accepted opinion of him that give him that chance.
Carnera did not hit hard, he did not take a good punch . He had , guts,fair skills, and agility for one of his size , and knew how to use his weight , and how to stamp all over an opponents feet.that's all.

Joe Louis said he had "nothing".
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Old 03-31-2012, 09:52 AM   #14
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Default Re: Bob Fitzsimmons vs Primo Carnera

Slow and Ponderous would be an understatement,,,,,,,,

In the Modern Era,,,,,equal to 'Giant' Jack O'Halloran

Another big guy with mediocre skills.

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Old 03-31-2012, 10:26 AM   #15
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Default Re: Bob Fitzsimmons vs Primo Carnera

I'm genuinely amazed that fitz is winning the poll.

Fitz isn't some safety first defensive wizard, he's a hard hitting sharpshooter.

Primo is much less great than fitz but in stopping sharkey with one uppercut, he probably has the best victory of the two.

Fitz will clearly be miles ahead after winning the first few rounds but he'll get marked up with jabs and right hands as he's winning those rounds.

Eventually he'll begin to tire and primo will start landing his uppercut with more frequency.

Once ruby's legs begin to stiffen he'll find himself being walked down and hammered.

The lightest hw champ vs the heaviest hw (paper) champ.

Is fitz able to produce the relentless aggression which saw louis and baer batter carnera into submission?

I say no. I say he'll win the early rounds big but eventually will succumb to primo.

It seems a close fight but i'm really surprised to see fitz taking the poll. Is there something i'm missing here?
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