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Old 03-30-2012, 08:56 AM   #1
Senor Pepe'
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Default Joe Bugner 'Overrated/Underrated'

Joe Bugner,

Maybe the most difficult fighter to rate.

Had the talent to possibly be a heavyweight champion.

But never seemed to be motivated for the 'big fight'.

In 1973/1974 may have just had the right style (if he held up under the
early bombs) to defeat 'Big' George Foreman.
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Old 03-30-2012, 09:13 AM   #2
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Default Re: Joe Bugner 'Overrated/Underrated'

Generally underrated these days, imo.

He wouldn't beat Foreman. That's overrating him. He'd do well to survive against Foreman, Something he was good at.

Last edited by slip&counter; 03-30-2012 at 10:05 AM.
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Old 03-30-2012, 09:17 AM   #3
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Default Re: Joe Bugner 'Overrated/Underrated'

Quote:
Originally Posted by Senor Pepe' View Post
Joe Bugner,

Maybe the most difficult fighter to rate.

Had the talent to possibly be a heavyweight champion.

But never seemed to be motivated for the 'big fight'.

In 1973/1974 may have just had the right style (if he held up under the
early bombs) to defeat 'Big' George Foreman.
1st u predicted Bugner vs Bobick was a pick 'em , then picked Bugner and now Bugner vs prime Foreman is a pick 'em ?
Foreman would have brutalized him better than Shavers did , as much as it's hard 2 imagine . Or maybe it would have taken him 1 more rd ? 4 sure it couldn't have taken him more than 3 .
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Old 03-30-2012, 09:53 AM   #4
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Default Re: Joe Bugner 'Overrated/Underrated'

Frankie,,,,,,,

Easy there Big Fella,,,,,,

I said Joe 'may' have the right style in 1973/1974 for Big George 'IF' he withstood
the early bombs.

Style's make fights,,,,,,,not always power.

Bugner vs. Bobick was in 1977,
I originally had it a pick-em fight.
But after the counter posts.
Then, I leaned toward Joe Bugner in a close-fight.
Then to Joe B. in a solid win.

Let me email Chuck Wepner, and here his comments on the fighters.

Last edited by Senor Pepe'; 03-30-2012 at 10:04 AM.
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Old 03-30-2012, 10:39 AM   #5
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Default Re: Joe Bugner 'Overrated/Underrated'

July 1973

'Joe Frazier On Way Back'

Smokin Joe Frazier proved that he is not washed up. Looking steamed as usual, Joe smoked
past England's Joe Bugner in a 12-rounder, by scoring big points on Bugner, with disturbing bob
and weave motions, and his almightly left hook.

Although the bout went the full 12 round distance, Frazier, a shade under 6 feet, nailed his
6' 4" opponent frequently, and controlled the fight with his aggressive style.

In the 8th round, Frazier had Bugner's nose bleeding from a left hook, and traces of blood
trickled from above Bugner's right eye, but the wounds didn't slow his desire.
In the 10th round, Frazier drove Bugner to the canvas for a count of '9', but not to
be out-done, Bugner was able to move the former champion to the center of the ring, and buckled
Frazier's legs with a blazing-bomb of a right hand.

In the 11th round Frazier's left eye was closed from Bugner's repeated right hands, but the former
champion remained the attacker in the last 2 rounds.

"Joe Bugner lands a blazing-bomb on Smokin Joe Frazier'

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

Last edited by Senor Pepe'; 03-30-2012 at 11:42 AM.
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Old 03-30-2012, 12:53 PM   #6
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Default Re: Joe Bugner 'Overrated/Underrated'

Quote:
Originally Posted by Senor Pepe' View Post
Frankie,,,,,,,

Easy there Big Fella,,,,,,

I said Joe 'may' have the right style in 1973/1974 for Big George 'IF' he withstood
the early bombs.

Style's make fights,,,,,,,not always power.

Bugner vs. Bobick was in 1977,
I originally had it a pick-em fight.
But after the counter posts.
Then, I leaned toward Joe Bugner in a close-fight.
Then to Joe B. in a solid win.

Let me email Chuck Wepner, and here his comments on the fighters.
regardless of what Wepner , Ali or even Eddie Futch or Freddie Roach would say/would have said , Bugner stood no chance vs Foreman even if he was d 3rd man in a George Foreman vs 3 men in N'Djamena in a summery late noon . unless d 1st 2 lasted 4 full rds each , maybe then Bugner may have upset Foreman .
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Old 03-30-2012, 12:57 PM   #7
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Default Re: Joe Bugner 'Overrated/Underrated'

Quote:
Originally Posted by Senor Pepe' View Post
July 1973

'Joe Frazier On Way Back'

Smokin Joe Frazier proved that he is not washed up. Looking steamed as usual, Joe smoked
past England's Joe Bugner in a 12-rounder, by scoring big points on Bugner, with disturbing bob
and weave motions, and his almightly left hook.

Although the bout went the full 12 round distance, Frazier, a shade under 6 feet, nailed his
6' 4" opponent frequently, and controlled the fight with his aggressive style.

In the 8th round, Frazier had Bugner's nose bleeding from a left hook, and traces of blood
trickled from above Bugner's right eye, but the wounds didn't slow his desire.
In the 10th round, Frazier drove Bugner to the canvas for a count of '9', but not to
be out-done, Bugner was able to move the former champion to the center of the ring, and buckled
Frazier's legs with a blazing-bomb of a right hand.

In the 11th round Frazier's left eye was closed from Bugner's repeated right hands, but the former
champion remained the attacker in the last 2 rounds.

"Joe Bugner lands a blazing-bomb on Smokin Joe Frazier'

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
Frazier was past his prime by then , but even past his prime Frazier was enough 2 beat Bugner . But still , n even more past his prime Shavers did it much better .
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Old 03-30-2012, 01:32 PM   #8
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Default Re: Joe Bugner 'Overrated/Underrated'

I think the problem with Joe is that he tantalised and teased small glimpses of his true capabilities throughout his career, which is probably a big reason why his initial UK fans ultimately got frustrated with him, not the beating of Henry cooper, if Joe had then gone on a destructive run of Victories his support would of been immense, instead he goes and gets chased almost literally out of the ring by the honest trier Jack Bodell, - but Joe had Jack all at sea in the 12 round, but never pressed his advantage to close the show.,

He was to make a habit of this, Joe frazier of course beat Joe on points, but Joe fought better only after being dropped in the 10th, immediately causing Joe to dip at the knees, and if it had been a 15 rounder as was common in those days, One Eyed, Tired Frazier may not of been favoured to see out the distence, the frustration was to continue, putting in a half -hearted effort in the Ali title fight, and losing a close decision to Ron Lyle, when again ala Bodell, he Shook Lyle but didnt have that Fire in his belly to go for Broke, or even press his advantage,

The shavers fight is a little unfair to the Older Joe - he was NOT Knocked out
the Shavers Ko highlight reel misleads, Joe was floored in the first, and backpeddled to see out the first round, in the second Joe was looking more comfortable than Earnie - and he gets stopped ..On a Cut Eye...on his feet and functioning well. it was by no means certain Earnie's hand was going to be raised as victor if the cut had not occured.

Joe Ko'd Jurgen Blin with a big right hand Albeit he looked as surprised as anyone at the effect of the Punch, of course when feeling completely unthreatened as against Richard Dunn, he turned Tiger for the 1st round Ko.

I think deep down Joe probably didnt belive he was as good as he had the potential to be, Perhaps a trainer other than Andy Smith would of had Joe less Ametuer Rigid, and more Pro adventurous, However his safety first style, allied to his fast mobility, good Jab, good Chin, and ability to claim and negate, strong and ackward in a clinch Joe could be, for me this does indicate that he would indeed be a very troublesome opponent for the Pre Ali George Foreman, Joe certainly would not be a sitting Target for George, and George may only land a punch or two before he is Claimed, and Joe is away again, Bugner would indeed Bug George, and with George's Stamina as it was...If young George thought Greg
Peralta was a shifty handful, the Bigger Stronger Bugner may have chances to come on late and spring a surprise..?

Joe was an Enigma, and didnt like hurting people or indeed being hurt,so perhaps was in the wrong business, he had talent but perhaps not the commitment fully develope that Talent.
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Old 03-30-2012, 01:43 PM   #9
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Default Re: Joe Bugner 'Overrated/Underrated'

The exact same fighter doing the exact same things in this era would be treated like a bum after getting his butt peed in by both Kltischkos, Haye and Chambers but he was from the seventies so he would've been a champion in any other era. ATG contender.
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Old 03-30-2012, 01:47 PM   #10
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Default Re: Joe Bugner 'Overrated/Underrated'

No way would Haye and Chambers beat him! Certainly not Haye.

But yes he'd lose similarly to both Klitschkos just as he did against the cream of the crop in his day IMO. Chambers and Haye were contenders, just as Bugner was. I think they'd fare less well in Bugners day than he would nowadays.
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Old 03-30-2012, 01:51 PM   #11
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Default Re: Joe Bugner 'Overrated/Underrated'

Yeah, they both beat him, dude. It's not disputable. They both beat him by knockout in one round. The stars back then had it easy and that's why they were champions. They were good but nothing special. They wouldn't be top ten today. Bugner was a bum with no chin and no skill and fat and everyone from my legendary time is an all-star. Case closed.
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Old 03-30-2012, 02:01 PM   #12
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Default Re: Joe Bugner 'Overrated/Underrated'

A well past his prime Shavers was on his way 2 kill Bugner had his life and dignity weren't saved 4 that lucky cut he endured . It was d luckiest stoppage due 2 cuts a fighter ever endured by a huge margin .
Chambers vs Bugner is a pick 'em , Haye would have won handily against him , like he did A-Force , maybe it would have taken him a few more rds , because after all A-Force was old against him . But Bugner would have lost 2 Haye 4 sure , even if d distance is agreed upon 15 rds . If Haye would have become economical in d last 3 rds , supposing they got there , which would have been a miracle 4 Bugner in itself , don't expect Bugner 2 become a predator vs some1 with Haye's punch n speed . Bugner was a somewhat improved version of Collin Wilson . Bugner was d 1970s Collin Wilson , and i m not 1 of those who believe that d 1970s fighters were all d best of their type . Better than Wilson yes , but no need 2 overrate him . This thread proves he is overrated by most .

Last edited by frankenfrank; 03-30-2012 at 02:13 PM.
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Old 03-30-2012, 02:07 PM   #13
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Default Re: Joe Bugner 'Overrated/Underrated'

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrOliverKlozoff View Post
Yeah, they both beat him, dude. It's not disputable. They both beat him by knockout in one round. The stars back then had it easy and that's why they were champions. They were good but nothing special. They wouldn't be top ten today. Bugner was a bum with no chin and no skill and fat and everyone from my legendary time is an all-star. Case closed.
I'm not aware of your posting style to judge whether you're being sarcastic or not, sorry.
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Old 03-30-2012, 02:29 PM   #14
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Default Re: Joe Bugner 'Overrated/Underrated'

The Joe Frazier who fought Joe Bugner in 1973 was clearly not the same Frazier
from March 1971.

As a matter of fact, Joe Frazier was at his peak in 1968/1969/1970.

Joe had slipped a bit heading into the March 1971 F.O.T.C., and that is a fact.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As for Joe Bugner, clearly a Top 10 fighter for the early-mid 70's.
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Old 03-30-2012, 06:10 PM   #15
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Default Re: Joe Bugner 'Overrated/Underrated'

Quote:
Originally Posted by frankenfrank View Post
A well past his prime Shavers was on his way 2 kill Bugner had his life and dignity weren't saved 4 that lucky cut he endured . It was d luckiest stoppage due 2 cuts a fighter ever endured by a huge margin .
Chambers vs Bugner is a pick 'em , Haye would have won handily against him , like he did A-Force , maybe it would have taken him a few more rds , because after all A-Force was old against him . But Bugner would have lost 2 Haye 4 sure , even if d distance is agreed upon 15 rds . If Haye would have become economical in d last 3 rds , supposing they got there , which would have been a miracle 4 Bugner in itself , don't expect Bugner 2 become a predator vs some1 with Haye's punch n speed . Bugner was a somewhat improved version of Collin Wilson . Bugner was d 1970s Collin Wilson , and i m not 1 of those who believe that d 1970s fighters were all d best of their type . Better than Wilson yes , but no need 2 overrate him . This thread proves he is overrated by most .
I have serious doubts about your boxing knowledge. Sorry to be so blunt.
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