boxing
Forum Home Boxing Forum European British Classic Aussie MMA Training
Go Back   Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > Classic Boxing Forum


Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 03-31-2012, 03:03 PM   #31
Senor Pepe'
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 4,704
vCash: 500
Default Re: Joe Bugner 'Overrated/Underrated'

Actually the article had an incorrect weight for Jack O'Halloran.

O'Halloran weighed 245 lbs. for that bout.

As for **** Hall, strictly an over-blown Light-Heavyweight from Boston, Mass.
who weighed 178 lbs. in his previous bout, a knock-out loss to 'Shotgun Sheldon' who
was a 'pudgy meatball heavyweight' with a .500 record.
Senor Pepe' is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 03-31-2012, 03:04 PM   #32
TBooze
Undisputed Champion
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: South of London
Posts: 11,020
vCash: 1500
Default Re: Joe Bugner 'Overrated/Underrated'

Had the potential to do something. But the Frazier fight aside, he just signed it in, in his big fights. And was just glad to go the distance. Which was a fair achievement for the era he was in, but does not mean he has been underrated in any way shape or form, by the vast majority of people.
TBooze is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2012, 04:07 PM   #33
kenmore
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,570
vCash: 103
Default Re: Joe Bugner 'Overrated/Underrated'

Quote:
Originally Posted by TBooze View Post
Had the potential to do something. But the Frazier fight aside, he just signed it in, in his big fights. And was just glad to go the distance. Which was a fair achievement for the era he was in, but does not mean he has been underrated in any way shape or form, by the vast majority of people.
He is especially underrated by today's fans, who regard Bugner as a clubfighter or journeyman who would have lost to any half-decent fighter.

The only guys of the 1971 to 1977 era who rate above Bugner are:

1. Ali
2. Frazier
3. Foreman
4. Norton
5. Young
6. Quarry
7. Lyle
8. Shavers

Bugner would have beaten everyone else outside of this list. In fact, on his better nights, he might have beaten some of the names on this list, such as Young, Quarry, Lyle, and Shavers.

So, Bugner kept high company. He's underrated if people don't respect that.
kenmore is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2012, 04:08 PM   #34
kenmore
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,570
vCash: 103
Default Re: Joe Bugner 'Overrated/Underrated'

Quote:
Originally Posted by Senor Pepe' View Post
Actually the article had an incorrect weight for Jack O'Halloran.

O'Halloran weighed 245 lbs. for that bout.

As for **** Hall, strictly an over-blown Light-Heavyweight from Boston, Mass.
who weighed 178 lbs. in his previous bout, a knock-out loss to 'Shotgun Sheldon' who
was a 'pudgy meatball heavyweight' with a .500 record.
And you regard these fights as indications of how good Bugner was in his prime?
kenmore is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2012, 04:29 PM   #35
Senor Pepe'
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 4,704
vCash: 500
Default Re: Joe Bugner 'Overrated/Underrated'

Quote:
Originally Posted by kenmore View Post
And you regard these fights as indications of how good Bugner was in his prime?
No,

It is just an old 1970 article I found about the young heavyweights.

Joe Bugner was on the list, so somebody must have felt that he had
potential.

As for Joe's rating, after;
1} Muhammad Ali
2} George Foreman
3} Joe Frazier
4} Ken Norton
5} Ron Lyle
6} Jerry Quarry
7} Earnie Shavers
8} Joe Bugner could be given the #8 slot for the early-mid 70's heavyweights.

Though I'm pretty sure Roy 'Tiger' Williams would have handled him
without too much problem.
Senor Pepe' is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2012, 04:31 PM   #36
PetethePrince
Slick & Redheaded
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 14,395
vCash: 1200
Default Re: Joe Bugner 'Overrated/Underrated'

Neither. Maybe underrated in his own time, at least under-appreciated.
PetethePrince is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2012, 05:17 PM   #37
he grant
Historian/Film Maker
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 7,849
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Joe Bugner 'Overrated/Underrated'

Bugner was one of those guys that looked like he was never giving 100 % ... He was just missing a certain spark ... he was big, a good boxer with good speed and a terrific chin .. his power was limited and he simply just never managed to do that little bit extra in losing efforts across the board ...
he grant is online now  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2012, 05:26 PM   #38
fightcollector
newbie
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 35
vCash: 500
Default Re: Joe Bugner 'Overrated/Underrated'

I liked Bugner. He was surrounded by greatness so he never really showed
fightcollector is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2012, 05:26 PM   #39
kenmore
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,570
vCash: 103
Default Re: Joe Bugner 'Overrated/Underrated'

Quote:
Originally Posted by Senor Pepe' View Post
No,

It is just an old 1970 article I found about the young heavyweights.

Joe Bugner was on the list, so somebody must have felt that he had
potential.
I remember that magazine. The other "young heavies" were Foreman, Norton, and -- surprisingly -- Mike Quarry. I guess they expected Quarry to grow into a full fledged heavyweight.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Senor Pepe' View Post
Though I'm pretty sure Roy 'Tiger' Williams would have handled him
without too much problem.
Bull****. The whole Roy Williams thing was more myth than fact...the notion that he was vastly underrated, and could whip some leading fighters if given the chance. Just imaginative talk among boxing people.

Williams was actually beaten by Richard Dunn. He also lost to Henry Clark. I see Bugner handling Williams by decision, in a sloppy, unimpressive performance, but a clear cut win nonetheless.
kenmore is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2012, 05:45 PM   #40
Senor Pepe'
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 4,704
vCash: 500
Default Re: Joe Bugner 'Overrated/Underrated'

I like Joe B.,,,,,,,,,,,

and think that he was underrated, but styles make fights.

A loss to Richard Dunn and Henry Clark doesn't mean that
Roy Tiger Williams couldn't beat Joe B.

One heavy right by Roy, and Joe B. could be on the defensive all night.

see; Larry Middleton
Senor Pepe' is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2012, 07:06 PM   #41
kenmore
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,570
vCash: 103
Default Re: Joe Bugner 'Overrated/Underrated'

Quote:
Originally Posted by Senor Pepe' View Post
I like Joe B.,,,,,,,,,,,

and think that he was underrated, but styles make fights.

A loss to Richard Dunn and Henry Clark doesn't mean that
Roy Tiger Williams couldn't beat Joe B.

One heavy right by Roy, and Joe B. could be on the defensive all night.

see; Larry Middleton
You're saying Bugner's loss to Middleton is an indication of how the prime Bugner would do against Williams? That's laughable.

Besides, Bugner wasn't on the defensive all night against Middleton. It was a very close fight. Many thought the decision should have gone to Bugner.

As for Williams's right hand, I don't think it would have made too much of an impact on Bugner. Bugner stood up to shots from the best of them. He could have withstood Williams's shots.

And you are right about styles making fights: Dunn and Clark beat Williams by dominating from the distance, throwing lots of jabs. Bugner was very effective distance boxer with an excellent left jab himself. He could have done better than Dunn and Clark.

Pepe: you have a bias against Bugner. That's clear.
kenmore is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2012, 12:45 AM   #42
Senor Pepe'
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 4,704
vCash: 500
Default Re: Joe Bugner 'Overrated/Underrated'

Kenmore,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Are you out of your rmind.

I started this thread,,,,

I stated that Joe B. was 'Underrated'.

And as you can see, I rated Joe B. above Jimmy Young.

As for Roy Tiger Williams, if he was so easy, why didn't Bugner fight him
when he had the chance in 1974.

Nobody was clamoring to fight Williams. The guy had to beg to get somebody to fight him.

Last edited by Senor Pepe'; 04-01-2012 at 01:01 AM.
Senor Pepe' is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2012, 01:07 AM   #43
kenmore
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,570
vCash: 103
Default Re: Joe Bugner 'Overrated/Underrated'

Quote:
Originally Posted by Senor Pepe' View Post
Kenmore,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Are you out of your rmind.

I started this thread,,,,

I stated that Joe B. was 'Underrated'.

And as you can see, I rated Joe B. above Jimmy Young.

As for Roy Tiger Williams, if he was so easy, why didn't Bugner fight him
when he had the chance in 1974.

Nobody was clamoring to fight Williams. The guy had to beg to get somebody to fight him.
Bugner was never offered a chance to fight Williams in 1974. Where did you get your information?

ALSO, WHERE ARE THE "ITALIAN TELEVISION ARCHIVES" YOU KEEP TALKING ABOUT????
kenmore is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2012, 09:41 AM   #44
Senor Pepe'
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 4,704
vCash: 500
Default Re: Joe Bugner 'Overrated/Underrated'

Quote:
Originally Posted by kenmore View Post
Bugner was never offered a chance to fight Williams in 1974. Where did you get your information?

ALSO, WHERE ARE THE "ITALIAN TELEVISION ARCHIVES" YOU KEEP TALKING ABOUT????
IN ITALY,,,,,,,,,,,,,,PROGRAMMA NAZIONALE have all the major fights
in there catalog.

Also, Europort Italia

Of course, not available for public viewing, unless a broadcast release.
---------------------------------------------------------------------

ABC Wide World of Sports press release in January 1974.

A heavyweight boxing event is scheduled for Wide Wolrd of Sports
in February.
ABC-TV will televise the event from Las Vegas.
Contracts have been issued to Heavyweight Contenders, England's Joe Bugner,
and American Heavyweights, Roy Tiger Williams, Randy Neumann and Boone Kirkman.

Each bout will be scheduled for 10 Rounds. Fight purse's have not been settled.

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

Last edited by Senor Pepe'; 04-01-2012 at 11:06 AM.
Senor Pepe' is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2012, 11:54 AM   #45
kenmore
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,570
vCash: 103
Default Re: Joe Bugner 'Overrated/Underrated'

Quote:
Originally Posted by Senor Pepe' View Post

ABC Wide World of Sports press release in January 1974.

A heavyweight boxing event is scheduled for Wide Wolrd of Sports
in February.
ABC-TV will televise the event from Las Vegas.
Contracts have been issued to Heavyweight Contenders, England's Joe Bugner,
and American Heavyweights, Roy Tiger Williams, Randy Neumann and Boone Kirkman.

Each bout will be scheduled for 10 Rounds. Fight purse's have not been settled.
This doesn't say that Bugner vs Williams was made. It's just a tentative statement to the effect that the four heavyweights named might fight each other. It doesn't say what the pairings would be.

Incidentally, these bouts never even came off.

As for Bugner, he was never offered a bout against Roy Williams. I know a lot about Bugner's career, and can tell you that Williams was never discussed as an opponent. Bonavena, Lyle, and Kirkman were discussed as London opponents in 1974, but none of those fights manifested.

Also, you misunderstood **** Young's 1976 remark to the effect that Dante Cane was in the running for an Ali bout. Young was just making a sarcastic remark about the low quality of Ali's opposition. Nobody in their right mind would even have thought about Ali vs Cane in 1976.
kenmore is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Reply

Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > Classic Boxing Forum

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump






All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:32 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Boxing News 24 Forum 2015