Boxing  

Forum Home Boxing Forum European British Classic Aussie MMA Training
Go Back   Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > Classic Boxing Forum


Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 04-01-2012, 11:12 AM   #46
Senor Pepe'
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 4,704
vCash: 500
Default Re: Joe Bugner 'Overrated/Underrated'

Quote:
Originally Posted by kenmore View Post
This doesn't say that Bugner vs Williams was made. It's just a tentative statement to the effect that the four heavyweights named might fight each other. It doesn't say what the pairings would be.

Incidentally, these bouts never even came off.

As for Bugner, he was never offered a bout against Roy Williams. I know a lot about Bugner's career, and can tell you that Williams was never discussed as an opponent. Bonavena, Lyle, and Kirkman were discussed as London opponents in 1974, but none of those fights manifested.

Also, you misunderstood Dick Young's 1976 remark to the effect that Dante Cane was in the running for an Ali bout. Young was just making a sarcastic remark about the low quality of Ali's opposition. Nobody in their right mind would even have thought about Ali vs Cane in 1976.
Yes,,,,,,,,,,I see now,,,,,,,,,,,,in 1976

Jean-Pierre Coopman and Richard Dunn were not 'sarcastic jokes',,,
Senor Pepe' is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 04-01-2012, 11:58 AM   #47
kenmore
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,570
vCash: 103
Default Re: Joe Bugner 'Overrated/Underrated'

Quote:
Originally Posted by Senor Pepe' View Post
Yes,,,,,,,,,,I see now,,,,,,,,,,,,in 1976

Jean-Pierre Coopman and Richard Dunn were not 'sarcastic jokes',,,
In case it's lost on you, Dick Young was being sarcastic about Coopman and Dunn chosen as Ali opponents. He was taking the joke a step further by suggesting Cane.

Either way, Coopman and Dunn were a level above Cane in 1976. Especially Dunn, who would unquestionably have KO'd Cane.
kenmore is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2012, 12:29 PM   #48
Senor Pepe'
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 4,704
vCash: 500
Default Re: Joe Bugner 'Overrated/Underrated'

I will disagree,,,,,,,,,,,

Dante Cane in 1976 at age 36 would have made a better opponent than Richard Dunn
versus Muhammad Ali in 1976.

Cane had a better chin,,,,,,,,
Senor Pepe' is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2012, 12:43 PM   #49
round15
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,681
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Joe Bugner 'Overrated/Underrated'

Quote:
Originally Posted by slip&counter View Post
Generally underrated these days, imo.

He wouldn't beat Foreman. That's overrating him. He'd do well to survive against Foreman, Something he was good at.
I think Joe would have done well against George for a few rounds if he stood up and boxed him using his height and jab. Don't know how long he would have survived Foreman's power, but I wouldn't have written off Bugner early.

I kinda rate him near the best of the second tier heavyweight contenders of the late 60's early 70's. I think most would agree with me that Ali, Frazier, Foreman, Norton, and Larry Holmes were the best, whatever order you have. Some might consider Liston, Patterson and Leon Spinks to this group based on credentials. I don't know if I would add Spinks, but maybe Patterson and Liston.

Bonavena, Quarry, Lyle, Young, Shavers, Chuvalo, Ellis, Bobick, again in whatever order you rank, Joe Bugner is somewhere in this group I'd say.
round15 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2012, 03:04 PM   #50
kenmore
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,570
vCash: 103
Default Re: Joe Bugner 'Overrated/Underrated'

Quote:
Originally Posted by Senor Pepe' View Post
I will disagree,,,,,,,,,,,

Dante Cane in 1976 at age 36 would have made a better opponent than Richard Dunn
versus Muhammad Ali in 1976.

Cane had a better chin,,,,,,,,
Bullshit! Dunn was far superior to Cane.

By 1976, Cane was losing to everyone in Europe. Dunn, by contrast, was on a winning steak, and had beaten McAlinden and Bunny Johnson. That's in addition to beating Roy Williams years earlier.

Cane was no match for Richard Dunn. None whatsoever.

That Cane was more durable means little: Dunn had the better hands, was faster and more aggressive.
kenmore is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2012, 03:24 PM   #51
Senor Pepe'
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 4,704
vCash: 500
Default Re: Joe Bugner 'Overrated/Underrated'

Dante Cane gave Joe Bugner better fights than Richard Dunn could,
any day of the week.

Following his loss to Joe Bugner in February 1975, Cane won 4 straight fights
against Italy's top heavyweights.

By April 1976, he was just as good a challenger for the World Title as Richard Dunn.

Richard Dunn was considered 'a first class joke'.

He had one good win in his entire career, a decision over
a talented but sleep-walking Roy Tiger Williams.

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

Last edited by Senor Pepe'; 04-01-2012 at 04:43 PM.
Senor Pepe' is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2012, 01:19 AM   #52
kenmore
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,570
vCash: 103
Default Re: Joe Bugner 'Overrated/Underrated'

Quote:
Originally Posted by Senor Pepe' View Post
Dante Cane gave Joe Bugner better fights than Richard Dunn could,
any day of the week.

Following his loss to Joe Bugner in February 1975, Cane won 4 straight fights
against Italy's top heavyweights.

By April 1976, he was just as good a challenger for the World Title as Richard Dunn.

Richard Dunn was considered 'a first class joke'.

He had one good win in his entire career, a decision over
a talented but sleep-walking Roy Tiger Williams.
After losing to Bugner, Cane was defeated by the mediocre Jose Urtain. What does that tell you?

Dunn was far, far above Cane in ability. Nobody denies this. Cane simply didn't have the punch or skill to exploit Dunn's weak chin.

As for Cane lasting longer than Dunn against Bugner, that's only because styles and physical attributes make the fights. Cane had a tougher chin than Dunn, so he stood up to more of a beating from Bugner than Dunn did. But still, Dunn was better than Cane, and by far, too.

Sorry Pepe. No kudos for you in this argument.
kenmore is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2012, 01:21 AM   #53
kenmore
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,570
vCash: 103
Default Re: Joe Bugner 'Overrated/Underrated'

Also, by 1976, Cane was in his mid 30s and was physically burned out. He was over the hill. Maybe the younger Cane could have beaten Dunn, but in 1976, Dunn was that much better than Cane. Period.
kenmore is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2012, 01:25 AM   #54
frankenfrank
Champion
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 6,467
vCash: 4120
Default Re: Joe Bugner 'Overrated/Underrated'

Quote:
Originally Posted by kenmore View Post
After losing to Bugner, Cane was defeated by the mediocre Jose Urtain. What does that tell you?
that Bugner was overrated , literally , by whomever gave him a ranking/rating as well
Quote:
Originally Posted by kenmore View Post
Dunn was far, far above Cane in ability. Nobody denies this. Cane simply didn't have the punch or skill to exploit Dunn's weak chin.

As for Cane lasting longer than Dunn against Bugner, that's only because styles and physical attributes make the fights. Cane had a tougher chin than Dunn, so he stood up to more of a beating from Bugner than Dunn did. But still, Dunn was better than Cane, and by far, too.

Sorry Pepe. No kudos for you in this argument.
frankenfrank is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2012, 01:27 AM   #55
frankenfrank
Champion
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 6,467
vCash: 4120
Default Re: Joe Bugner 'Overrated/Underrated'

Quote:
Originally Posted by kenmore View Post
Also, by 1976, Cane was in his mid 30s and was physically burned out. He was over the hill. Maybe the younger Cane could have beaten Dunn, but in 1976, Dunn was that much better than Cane. Period.
and this shows u that at least prime 4 prime , but also post prime vs prime , even Dante Cane whoever he was , was still better than Richard Dung
frankenfrank is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2012, 05:34 AM   #56
Senor Pepe'
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 4,704
vCash: 500
Default Re: Joe Bugner 'Overrated/Underrated'

Quote:
Originally Posted by frankenfrank View Post
and this shows u that at least prime 4 prime , but also post prime vs prime , even Dante Cane whoever he was , was still better than Richard Dung
Frank 2x,

Correct,,,,,,,,,Dante Cane was better than Richard Dunn.

Richard Dunn would fall down from a 'strong wind'.

As for Dante Cane,
October 1975 he knocks out undefeated Lorenzo Zanon, the same fighter
that Muhammad Ali had signed to defend his title against in December 1976.

December 1975 defeats #3 Italian Heavyweight Benito Penna.

April 1976 defeats #2 Italian Heavyweight Mario Baruzzi.

At that point in time, he was on Muhammad Ali's 'Bum of the Month' list.
He was also good enough to make Ring Magazine's Top 25.

Dante didn't lose to Jose Luis Urtain until July 1976. After that loss
he dropped out of the heavyweight scene.
Senor Pepe' is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2012, 07:37 AM   #57
Stevie G
Champion
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: London,England
Posts: 9,218
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Joe Bugner 'Overrated/Underrated'

Quote:
Originally Posted by Senor Pepe' View Post
Joe Bugner,

Maybe the most difficult fighter to rate.

Had the talent to possibly be a heavyweight champion.

But never seemed to be motivated for the 'big fight'.

In 1973/1974 may have just had the right style (if he held up under the
early bombs) to defeat 'Big' George Foreman.
Good question. Joe definitely had the ability to have achieved more than he did. He'd never have beaten Muhammad Ali in '75,even if he'd thrown caution to the wind,as some ascertain though. At that time Ali was still too good.

If Joe had FOUGHT TO THE FULL LEVEL OF HIS ABILITY during his his prime years of 1973-77,I see him beating everyone except for Ali,Frazier,Foreman,Norton,Young and Holmes. In other words,anyone but the six best heavyweights of the seventies. With a little more enterprise,he'd have decisioned Ron Lyle in their '77 bout.
Stevie G is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2012, 07:48 AM   #58
Legend X
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: London
Posts: 2,378
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Joe Bugner 'Overrated/Underrated'

Quote:
Originally Posted by kenmore View Post
Coopman and Dunn were a level above Cane in 1976. Especially Dunn, who would unquestionably have KO'd Cane.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Senor Pepe' View Post
I will disagree,,,,,,,,,,,

Dante Cane in 1976 at age 36 would have made a better opponent than Richard Dunn
versus Muhammad Ali in 1976.

Cane had a better chin,,,,,,,,



Quote:
Originally Posted by kenmore View Post
Bullshit! Dunn was far superior to Cane.


Quote:
Originally Posted by kenmore View Post
Cane was no match for Richard Dunn. None whatsoever.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Senor Pepe' View Post
Following his loss to Joe Bugner in February 1975, Cane won 4 straight fights
against Italy's top heavyweights.

By April 1976, he was just as good a challenger for the World Title as Richard Dunn.

Richard Dunn was considered 'a first class joke'.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kenmore View Post

Dunn was far, far above Cane in ability. Nobody denies this.




It's like arguing over which dog turd smells sweetest.
Legend X is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2012, 07:57 AM   #59
Senor Pepe'
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 4,704
vCash: 500
Default Re: Joe Bugner 'Overrated/Underrated'

Quote:
Originally Posted by Legend X View Post


It's like arguing over which dog turd smells sweetest.
Legend,,,,,,,,,,,I like the way you think........

This started with Joe Bugner,,,,,,and ends up with a Richard Dunn / Dane Cane who's better thread...
Senor Pepe' is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2012, 09:24 AM   #60
frankenfrank
Champion
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 6,467
vCash: 4120
Default Re: Joe Bugner 'Overrated/Underrated'

Quote:
Originally Posted by Legend X View Post


It's like arguing over which dog turd smells sweetest.
frankenfrank is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Reply

Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > Classic Boxing Forum

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump





All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:44 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Boxing News 24 Forum 2013