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Old 04-01-2012, 05:41 PM   #16
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Default Re: Did Ali's trash talk backfire against Frazier in fight 1?

The talking was a factor in making the fight that bit bigger.

Hindsight shows Ali losing helped make him as popular as he was, it was arguably the most important thing that happened to him in boxing.
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Old 04-02-2012, 02:16 AM   #17
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Default Re: Did Ali's trash talk backfire against Frazier in fight 1?

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Count me with lufcrazy on this.

Frazier never was this sharp in his entire career. He had his best night here against the best fighter he ever faced. It seems obvious that something was different for this fight that would cause a man to train even harder, to take everything a fighter like Ali had, to have such good stamina in round 15 after the beating he was both taking and administering for 14 rounds, etc. That obvious thing was the race-baiting, Uncle-Tom talk that Ali constantly delivered.

The derogative comments about Frazier's ability, I doubt bothered Joe. Just Ali's constant pandering to the "Frazier's an Uncle Tom" crowd, a viewpoint which it seems Ali made up on his own, creating that crowd by himself.
I think Ali's trash talking inadvertently worked but didn't help him much either. Joe was in top physical shape that night. He wanted to kill Ali with every left hook he threw. Joe might have done more damage to Ali earlier in the fight had he concentrated on killing the body more whie adding his right hand to the attack. Joe wanted to prove that he was just as good a fighter as Ali if not better which is probably why he did his share of clowning and taunting that night. His emotions were running high for all the BS stuff that Ali said prior to the fight.
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Old 04-02-2012, 02:34 AM   #18
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Default Re: Did Ali's trash talk backfire against Frazier in fight 1?

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To use a more recent example, did Chisora's tactics backfire against Vitally Klitschko?

If Klitschko had an arm injury as he claimed, then it is verry likley that his dislike for Chisora, helped him to tough it out!
Vitali was making an excuse for not looking as dominant and having to fight on the backfoot
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Old 04-02-2012, 03:50 AM   #19
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Default Re: Did Ali's trash talk backfire against Frazier in fight 1?

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Originally Posted by A.J. View Post
Count me with lufcrazy on this.

Frazier never was this sharp in his entire career. He had his best night here against the best fighter he ever faced. It seems obvious that something was different for this fight that would cause a man to train even harder, to take everything a fighter like Ali had, to have such good stamina in round 15 after the beating he was both taking and administering for 14 rounds, etc. That obvious thing was the race-baiting, Uncle-Tom talk that Ali constantly delivered.

No, the OBVIOUS thing was that Muhammad Ali was clearly the best fighter he ever faced, and Muhammad Ali was still considered the true champion by the average man on the street in most of the world.

It would seem obvious (to me anyway) that was enough to maximize Frazier's motivation.
We're talking about a great fighter in the peak of his career, hungry for universal recognition.
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Old 04-02-2012, 07:57 AM   #20
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Default Re: Did Ali's trash talk backfire against Frazier in fight 1?

YES - Ali's trashtalking made Smoke willing to die And wanting to literally KILL him in teh ring!

It backfired, But it gave us teh greatest heavyweight war in history, bar none.
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Old 04-02-2012, 08:06 AM   #21
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Default Re: Did Ali's trash talk backfire against Frazier in fight 1?

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Originally Posted by A.J. View Post

The derogative comments about Frazier's ability, I doubt bothered Joe. Just Ali's constant pandering to the "Frazier's an Uncle Tom" crowd, a viewpoint which it seems Ali made up on his own, creating that crowd by himself.
Personally, it is clear to me Frazier was no 'Uncle Tom', but if you were Ali coming back from what he had just been through; you saw another black have everything you used to have, but had not beaten you to do it, I can understand his bitterness and frustration.
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Old 04-02-2012, 08:23 AM   #22
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Default Re: Did Ali's trash talk backfire against Frazier in fight 1?

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the OBVIOUS thing was that Muhammad Ali was clearly the best fighter he ever faced
What about Dave Zyglewicz?
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Old 04-02-2012, 08:25 AM   #23
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Default Re: Did Ali's trash talk backfire against Frazier in fight 1?

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What about Dave Zyglewicz?
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Old 04-02-2012, 08:30 AM   #24
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Default Re: Did Ali's trash talk backfire against Frazier in fight 1?

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What about Dave Zyglewicz?
Fair and valid point, ...... but the Frazier-Zyglewicz go was fixed, and Joe knew Dave had agreed to go in the tank for him.
Yank Durham would never have let Joe near him if it had been otherwise.
Every ranked heavyweight avoided "Ziggy", look at his record it proves it.
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Old 04-02-2012, 08:39 AM   #25
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Default Re: Did Ali's trash talk backfire against Frazier in fight 1?

Love the 'ZIGGY'

Was from upstate New York, but moved to Texas.

Smokin Joe was worried about the big left hook that 'ZIGGY' had,
called the 'Texas Cork-Screw'.
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Old 04-02-2012, 06:06 PM   #26
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Default Re: Did Ali's trash talk backfire against Frazier in fight 1?

Hey really...this is no joke...Ziggy had Joe Frazier worried.......



Joe was worried that he had killed Ziggy
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Old 04-02-2012, 07:38 PM   #27
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Default Re: Did Ali's trash talk backfire against Frazier in fight 1?

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Hey really...this is no joke...Ziggy had Joe Frazier worried.......



Joe was worried that he had killed Ziggy
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Old 04-02-2012, 07:39 PM   #28
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Default Re: Did Ali's trash talk backfire against Frazier in fight 1?

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Hey really...this is no joke...Ziggy had Joe Frazier worried.......



Joe was worried that he had killed Ziggy
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Old 04-02-2012, 08:13 PM   #29
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Default Re: Did Ali's trash talk backfire against Frazier in fight 1?

Frazier had a style that was always going to bother Ali. If you watch his first bout with Patterson, Patterson is able to get to Ali at times.
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Old 04-02-2012, 08:15 PM   #30
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Default Re: Did Ali's trash talk backfire against Frazier in fight 1?

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Frazier had a style that was always going to bother Ali. If you watch his first bout with Patterson, Patterson is able to get to Ali at times.
Smokey Joe is imo closer to George "teh chin" Chuvalo stylewise, than lil Floyd.
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