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View Poll Results: Would a retired Mayweather rank above Marciano, or not?
Mayweather would rank higher for me 29 52.73%
Marciano would rank higher for me 24 43.64%
So close it doesn't matter. 2 3.64%
Voters: 55. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 04-02-2012, 11:55 AM   #46
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Default Re: Would a retired Mayweather rank above Marciano, or not?

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Originally Posted by Legend X View Post
Mayweather hasn't done anything I'd consider a exceptional "pound for pound" victory, in the classic sense.
Most the guys he fights are close to his size, a lot of the good ones are smaller, (the biggest names are older than he too).
Exactly. His best wins aren't up to others in the top 50 either. I could honestly rank Marcel over him and not be fussed.
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Old 04-02-2012, 12:02 PM   #47
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Default Re: Would a retired Mayweather rank above Marciano, or not?

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Originally Posted by Flea Man View Post
Exactly. His best wins aren't up to others in the top 50 either.
Yeah, I'd have to concur with the sentiment that he wouldn't rate high in the overall historic pound-for-pound ratings.
I can see a much clearer case for Marciano to do so, the more I think about it.
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Old 04-02-2012, 12:04 PM   #48
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Default Re: Would a retired Mayweather rank above Marciano, or not?

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Originally Posted by lufcrazy View Post
Pp, stray away from henry v floyd comparisons. Do yourself a favour.
Why? Watch and compare the opponents they beat and see if you really consider Armstrong to have beat better opposition. Compare top wins:

Barney Ross - Delahoya
Garcia - Corrales
Ambers-Castillo
Angott-Mosley
Zivic- Judah
Arizmendi - Hatton
Sarron - G Hernandez
Joyce - Marquez

Ask yourself why Armstrong's wins are better, if they are better, objectively compare their abilities and resumes. You'll see it isn't clear cut

There's certainly an argument Mayweather beat better men than Armstrong overall, I'd say he already has more quality in depth with possible additions of Cotto, Martinez, Pacquaio, Khan, Bradley and Alvarez in the future.

Both also suffer resume wise from not taking on some of the best WWs of their era. Armstrong didn't face Burley, Cocoa Kid, Holman Williams. That was due to his management not him, but he didn't clean out any division really, much like Floyd

Then there's longevity, Armstrong only managed to stay as a world champion from 37-40, 3years, where as Mayweather has managed from 98-12, minus a 2 year hiatus = 10years. I already rate Mayweather over Armstrong, partly because Armstrong is overrated due to weight hopping and title defences against no marks

Mayweather>Armstrong
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Old 04-02-2012, 12:07 PM   #49
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Default Re: Would a retired Mayweather rank above Marciano, or not?

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Originally Posted by PowerPuncher View Post
Why? Watch and compare the opponents they beat and see if you really consider Armstrong to have beat better opposition. Compare top wins:

Barney Ross - Delahoya
Garcia - Corrales
Ambers-Castillo
Angott-Mosley
Zivic- Judah
Arizmendi - Hatton
Sarron - G Hernandez
Joyce - Marquez

There's certainly an argument Mayweather beat better men than Armstrong overall, I'd say he already has more quality in depth with possible additions of Cotto, Martinez, Pacquaio, Khan, Bradley and Alvarez in the future.

Both also suffer resume wise from not taking on some of the best WWs of their era. Armstrong didn't face Burley, Cocoa Kid, Holman Williams. That was due to his management not him, but he didn't clean out any division really, much like Floyd

Then there's longevity, Armstrong only managed to stay as a world champion from 37-40, 3years, where as Mayweather has managed from 98-12, minus a 2 year hiatus = 10years. I already rate Mayweather over Armstrong, partly because Armstrong is overrated due to weight hopping and title defences against no marks

Mayweather>Armstrong
Come off it PP
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Old 04-02-2012, 12:11 PM   #50
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Default Re: Would a retired Mayweather rank above Marciano, or not?

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Originally Posted by Legend X View Post
Mayweather hasn't done anything I'd consider a exceptional "pound for pound" victory, in the classic sense.
Most the guys he fights are close to his size, a lot of the good ones are smaller, (the biggest names are older than he too).

Marciano beating good men 12 or 25 pounds heavier than him is more impressive, in my opinion.
Mayweather is a legit welterweight, a big 140 man at the least. It's not like he's going around beating up light-heavies, or proper middles even.
How many good guys did rocky beat who were a stone or more heavier?

3 of his top 5 victories were against guys who were at their best in the lhw division.
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Old 04-02-2012, 12:13 PM   #51
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Default Re: Would a retired Mayweather rank above Marciano, or not?

Castillo as good as Lou Ambers ?

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Old 04-02-2012, 12:15 PM   #52
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Default Re: Would a retired Mayweather rank above Marciano, or not?

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Originally Posted by lufcrazy View Post
How many good guys did rocky beat who were a stone or more heavier?
Walcott was 12 - 13 pounds heavier.
Louis was about 30 pounds heavier.
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Old 04-02-2012, 12:20 PM   #53
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Default Re: Would a retired Mayweather rank above Marciano, or not?

Flea, take off the rose tints.

DLH-Ross - both are all time greats, both had size advantages against FMJ/HA, DLH more so. DLH arguably faced better opposition than Ross, I think he did

Castillo was the top lightweight against a who's who of his era beating Stevie Johnson, Casamayor, Corrales, Lazcano, Bazan, Julio Diaz and for some arguably Mayweather himself. Ambers certainly didn't achieve more than Castillo

Are you rating Zivic over Judah? Very different fighters, but Zivic actually has worse losses. Judah has 1 of the best speed and power combos in the modern era, was lineal WW champ and has 20+ title fights

Angott-Mosley - again very different fighters. Both were lineal champions when FMJ/HA fought them. Angott was nearer prime but coming up weight. Maybe Angott-Marquez/Hatton is a better comparison in that sense?

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Castillo as good as Lou Ambers ?

So I take you completely ignored the LW division in the early 2000s? Yes Castillo is
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Old 04-02-2012, 12:25 PM   #54
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Default Re: Would a retired Mayweather rank above Marciano, or not?

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Originally Posted by PowerPuncher View Post
Castillo was the top lightweight against a who's who of his era beating Stevie Johnson, Casamayor, Corrales, Lazcano, Bazan, Julio Diaz and for some arguably Mayweather himself. Ambers certainly didn't achieve more than Castillo

So I take you completely ignored the LW division in the early 2000s? Yes Castillo is

Lou Ambers has more and better wins.
I won't even list them. It's a very long list. Go check his record.
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Old 04-02-2012, 12:26 PM   #55
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Default Re: Would a retired Mayweather rank above Marciano, or not?

I'm rating Zivic over Judah on the basis that Zab is shite.
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Old 04-02-2012, 12:27 PM   #56
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Default Re: Would a retired Mayweather rank above Marciano, or not?

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Originally Posted by orriray59 View Post
Mayweather. C'mon now, Marciano had his wins but Mayweather has Marquez, Corrales, Castillo, Ortiz, Mosley, Gatti, etc. He has dominated for many years now and rarely loses a round.
Marciano was great too but his resume was lacking.
Wow. I couldn't disagree more. Rocky's resume lacked?

Ask an old-timer if the likes of Gatti--Gatti!!??-- and Marquez, an old Mosley, and an Ortiz are within the same solar system of talent as Ezzard Charles, Jersey Joe Walcott, Archie Moore, etc., even an admittedly old Louis. Not to mention Rocky's proven ability to take the worst beating and yet Floyd's never having stepped in the ring with anyone expected to be able to land a solid punch on him because . . . uh . . . boxing is so weak today.

Marciano ranks much higher p4p than Mayweather on my list. Weird that I seem to be the only one favoring Marciano here . . . There are just so many ATG's that I can't picture Floyd surviving against, much less beating.
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Old 04-02-2012, 12:28 PM   #57
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Default Re: Would a retired Mayweather rank above Marciano, or not?

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Originally Posted by PowerPuncher View Post
Castillo was the top lightweight against a who's who of his era beating Stevie Johnson, Casamayor, Corrales, Lazcano, Bazan, Julio Diaz and for some arguably Mayweather himself. Ambers certainly didn't achieve more than Castillo

I like Castillo and always said that he is underrated.....but Ambers looks good enough to me on film and beat better fighters, I mean, beat Canzoneri, Arizmendi, Montanez, and others, is better than what JLC did (and Iīve never been so impressed with Canzoneri for example tbh), if you wanna put Bazan, Lazcano and these guys in the discussion, then Ambers resume would be even better.....itīs a clear level above IMO.
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Old 04-02-2012, 12:34 PM   #58
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Default Re: Would a retired Mayweather rank above Marciano, or not?

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Originally Posted by Legend X View Post
Lou Ambers has more and better wins.
I won't even list them. It's a very long list. Go check his record.
No he certainly doesn't, his career highlight is a past prime Canzi who he lost to previously and Canzi isn't as amazing as people portray him anyway. Aside from that he didn't do a whole lot against the best of his era. Many don't think he won the Armstrong rematch, many rightly or wrong saw Castillo beating Mayweather

Castillo beat more top fighters of his era than Ambers
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Old 04-02-2012, 12:35 PM   #59
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Default Re: Would a retired Mayweather rank above Marciano, or not?

it depends which way you go with floyds wasted talent. it pisses me off so i vote rocky coz he made the most of himself and had a smart career.
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Old 04-02-2012, 12:37 PM   #60
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Default Re: Would a retired Mayweather rank above Marciano, or not?

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Originally Posted by Legend X View Post
Walcott was 12 - 13 pounds heavier.
Louis was about 30 pounds heavier.
He gave up weight to beat walcott which was a brilliant victory. Floyd did the same with oscar.

Louis was shot to shit and I don't rate the victory particularly high.

My point being that a shot to shit louis aside, rocky could have fought his entire career in the cw division.
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